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Author Topic: Players Who Game Older Clubs  (Read 2414 times)
Richard Nixon
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« on: April 19, 2009, 07:43:06 AM »

Whenever there are PGA Tour Players who play older models, are the companies still making them a set or two a year? Or did they buy up a bunch of sets when production stopped? For example, Lumpy Herron uses Ping Eye 2s I think; what does he do when he needs a new set? Or Paddy Harrington, who plays Pi5s?
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« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2009, 08:21:05 AM »

Ping Eye 2's never wear out...they are tough!
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Jim Clark
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« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2009, 09:37:38 AM »

They can't make Eye 2's anymore with the square grooves (not since 1990). They can make Eye 2+'s with conforming grooves, but that is apparently changing over the next few years as they are revising the groove design requirements.

As tough as Pings are, even they will eventually wear out.

I've been searching for a set of Eye 2 +no+'s in my spec. They are rare, they have the improved head design of the Eye 2+ but still have the square grooves.
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Yanner
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« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2009, 12:15:50 PM »

I have read that Ping just make Lumpy a new set every year, the moulds haven't been disposed of so it must be a relatively straight forward task to cast him some more.  As for Padraig, he's still using/getting an out-of-production grip let alone club head, let it go man! Roll Eyes
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« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2009, 12:32:42 PM »

They can't make Eye 2's anymore with the square grooves (not since 1990). They can make Eye 2+'s with conforming grooves, but that is apparently changing over the next few years as they are revising the groove design requirements.


Actually, those irons are not subject to the new groove rules.  Part of Ping's settlement with the USGA in 1990 was that their clubs would be legal in perpetuity regardless of any future rule changes.  When the new rules were announced Ping made a point of mentioning that it did not effect those clubs.
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« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2009, 02:47:56 PM »

Actually, those irons are not subject to the new groove rules.  Part of Ping's settlement with the USGA in 1990 was that their clubs would be legal in perpetuity regardless of any future rule changes.  When the new rules were announced Ping made a point of mentioning that it did not effect those clubs.

Yes, that was part of the settlement. So us regular amateur players can use them forever. BUT, I believe the PGA Tour was not a party to that settlement which means they can set there own rules. Any other golf organization conducting tournaments (including local clubs) might also be able to set local rules (but I'm not sure about that one).
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bma725
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« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2009, 11:02:40 PM »

Yes, that was part of the settlement. So us regular amateur players can use them forever. BUT, I believe the PGA Tour was not a party to that settlement which means they can set there own rules. Any other golf organization conducting tournaments (including local clubs) might also be able to set local rules (but I'm not sure about that one).


If the association is conducting the tournament under USGA rules, according to Ping they have to allow the clubs as part of the settlement.
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Yanner
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« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2009, 12:22:15 AM »

If the association is conducting the tournament under USGA rules, according to Ping they have to allow the clubs as part of the settlement.

Isn't that for clubs manufactured before the agreement rather than just the design?  Similar to the wedge groove changes. 

If Ping does have a stock of square grooved wedges in the warehouse that comply because of the agreement could we see a flux of tour players using/requesting the old Pings to gain the square grooves?
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kiwi
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« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2009, 12:38:48 AM »

I thought you could still buy Eye2/2+'s (1 or the other) new with a special order from Ping. Cost is quite steep though.
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« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2009, 06:31:57 AM »

Interesting thing about Ping.  Ping maintains an inventory of every set all the way back to the Karsten I model.  They still have several Scottsdale answers in stock and are available to professional staff. The Scottsdale stuff is obviously limited and is considered on loan to any player that chooses to use one.  They are the only original Scottsdale's with serial numbers so the tour support staff and keep track of them.  When my sister retired it was the only club they called and asked to be returned.  I do know that back in the late 90's Joe public could still go to Ping and order whatever set of clubs Ping had ever made.  You paid a premium for them but if you wanted a brand new set from the 70's they could be had.  I assume Ping still does this but I haven't been out there since the late 90's.  The other cool thing about Ping, which I am sure most of you know is the putter vault.  Some 2400 plus Ping putters reside in a small room with a vault like door.  Every time a Professional wins a tour event world wide with a Ping putter they make two identical to the one used in that win and engrave it and gold plate it, for majors the putter is made from solid 10 or 14K gold.  One is kept in the vault and the other is sent to the player.  I am proud to say my sister has one in that vault (1989 Planters Pat Bradley) and I had the good fortune of going into the vault in 1996.  Very cool place.
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« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2009, 06:47:52 AM »

Made me think of cool bit of Ping history.

The Beryllium Copper clubs were a result of an expensive mistake.  Back in the early 80's Dave Pelz developed a new idea and even got a few tour players to try it out.  Feather light irons. I don't know what the swing weight was but it was super light.  They took off rather well and sold tens of thousands of sets one season.  Karsten insisted on having his own "feather lite" set to compete.  By the time Karsten manufacturing got their Ping version ready to roll out the golfing world had all but forgotten about the feather lite craze.  Having spent several hundred thousand dollars in design and tooling Karsten Solheim decided to find a heavier material and use the expensive tooling and the Beryllium Copper Pings were born.  They were one of the most popular clubs Ping made and launched many other manufacturers to make a Beryllium Copper irons, wedges and putters.

  Because beryllium compounds are toxic to a random 6% of the populous, there are some safety concerns for handling its alloys. In solid form and as finished parts, beryllium copper presents no particular health hazard. However, breathing its dust, as formed when machining or welding may cause serious lung damage. Beryllium compounds are known human carcinogens when inhaled. Beryllium Copper can no longer be machined or ground in most states any more.
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Jim Clark
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« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2009, 07:02:18 AM »

Interesting thing about Ping.  Ping maintains an inventory of every set all the way back to the Karsten I model.  They still have several Scottsdale answers in stock and are available to professional staff. The Scottsdale stuff is obviously limited and is considered on loan to any player that chooses to use one.  They are the only original Scottsdale's with serial numbers so the tour support staff and keep track of them.  When my sister retired it was the only club they called and asked to be returned.  I do know that back in the late 90's Joe public could still go to Ping and order whatever set of clubs Ping had ever made.  You paid a premium for them but if you wanted a brand new set from the 70's they could be had.  I assume Ping still does this but I haven't been out there since the late 90's.  The other cool thing about Ping, which I am sure most of you know is the putter vault.  Some 2400 plus Ping putters reside in a small room with a vault like door.  Every time a Professional wins a tour event world wide with a Ping putter they make two identical to the one used in that win and engrave it and gold plate it, for majors the putter is made from solid 10 or 14K gold.  One is kept in the vault and the other is sent to the player.  I am proud to say my sister has one in that vault (1989 Planters Pat Bradley) and I had the good fortune of going into the vault in 1996.  Very cool place.

Ping was not allowed to make or sell square groove Eye 2's after April of 1990. Eye 2+'s with the conforming grooves were available for many years, they might even still be available for special order.

I won an Ebay auction last night for the rarest of Pings. They're an Eye 2 +no+ set. They have the modified (improved) head shape of the Eye 2+ but have the square grooves of the Eye 2. They were only made from November 1989 to April 1990 when Ping had to stop making the square groove clubs under a lawsuit settlement with the USGA and R&A. The set is alleged by the seller to be new and never played. I hope they're for real, I paid dearly for them.
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« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2009, 07:15:05 AM »

Made me think of cool bit of Ping history.

The Beryllium Copper clubs were a result of an expensive mistake.  Back in the early 80's Dave Pelz developed a new idea and even got a few tour players to try it out.  Feather light irons. I don't know what the swing weight was but it was super light.  They took off rather well and sold tens of thousands of sets one season.  Karsten insisted on having his own "feather lite" set to compete.  By the time Karsten manufacturing got their Ping version ready to roll out the golfing world had all but forgotten about the feather lite craze.  Having spent several hundred thousand dollars in design and tooling Karsten Solheim decided to find a heavier material and use the expensive tooling and the Beryllium Copper Pings were born.  They were one of the most popular clubs Ping made and launched many other manufacturers to make a Beryllium Copper irons, wedges and putters.

Are you sure about that?  The original Eye2(v-groove, stainless steel, upside down stamp) was introduced in 1982...which was the same year the Pelz Featherlite came out.  The BeCu version didn't come out until 1986.  By that time, the clubs were already very popular and Karsten didn't need to worry about recouping tooling and design costs.
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« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2009, 07:29:27 AM »

From what I was told by a Ping designer the copper clubs all started because the heads while similar in design used less material than the original Eye 2.  The originals mold may have set around for a couple years before they actually used the idea of a heavier material.  But the source was legit and I have no reason to question the story so I believe it to be factual.  Karsten was always worried about recouping cost, he was a maniac when it came to wasted money.  In fact it was his idea to introduce the two colored ball because he had spent a lot of money developing a ball and their was little interest in it and was pretty sure the only way he could sell enough to get the money back was to have something so different from the rest he could sell enough of them to recoup his money prior to abandoning the ball.  It worked.  Although never a popular ball the two color scheme sold thousands of dozens just because of the novelty of it.
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« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2009, 01:52:40 PM »

I am proud to say my sister has one in that vault (1989 Planters Pat Bradley) and I had the good fortune of going into the vault in 1996.  Very cool place.

Your sister's name is Robin Hood?  Your parents must have some sense of humor.   
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