The Truth about Tour vs. Retail

[BigLeftyinAZ]

I buy too much stuff but I do it just to tinker. I don't do it to impress any one or because I think I will become a pro.

ps how's the knee?

Thanks for asking. Had the MRI yesterday and going to the Doc Monday to get the Diagnose.Without the MRI,he was saying it was a Meniscus Tear. He didnt mention a MCL or LCL tear.I hope it's not one of those.I'm guessing if it was,I'd be in more pain then I'm already in.  

[slymer58]

I remember a guy who had an Alpha driver (props to Dsquare) with a T and number stamped on it. He said it was tour. I called Dr. Yeh and asked him about it. He laughed and said the guy must have put it on himself.

[Jaylasvegas]

I remember a guy who had an Alpha driver (props to Dsquare) with a T and number stamped on it. He said it was tour. I called Dr. Yeh and asked him about it. He laughed and said the guy must have put it on himself.

see that Dbag that was trying to sell the "tour" gear on ebay and he actually made the serial numbers all to be  TXXXX

[DaveT319]

see that Dbag that was trying to sell the "tour" gear on ebay and he actually made the serial numbers all to be  TXXXX

Pretty slick...

I buy too much stuff but I do it just to tinker. I don't do it to impress any one or because I think I will become a pro.

How's that Tour-issue Geek 7even working for you?

Dave

[ND fan]

I guess people will believe what they want to.  Yes there are prototypes and a handful of select equipment that may have been made for the Japanese market that never gets to the US or developmental stuff that never took off but the vast majority of equipment being used on tour is the same high end retail stuff anyone can buy.  Its just blueprinted for that particular player.  The funny thing is I have seen a couple exceptions and the manufacturer will go to great lengths to make it cosmetically look like something they normally produce and market but after ten years on tour bag I have seen this only a couple times.
My sister played on the LPGA for ten years and I have known a few PGA tour players and there was nothing in their bags I couldn't get a hold of as Joe Public Golfer.

as for the inferior materials!?  you might be interested to know that some of the best forging steel is simply the cheapest raw material available.

a quote from Scratch Golf web site...
1018 Soft Carbon Steel, the softest and most responsive steel in golf.

All of our irons and wedges are forged from 1018 carbon steel. 1018 carbon steel is the softest, most responsive steel in golf. Before coming out with our first Scratch wedge in 2003 we tested many different grades of steel and our 1018 carbon steel forgings provide by far the best feel of any clubs made in the world.

In the machining world 1018 is basically generic steel, most machined components for steel fabrication are made of this because it is the cheapest carbon steel you can buy primarily because it the most widely used in industry.  It also happens to be one material that can be manipulated in several different ways cold or hot and does not greatly change the metallurgical characteristics of the material, it is very versatile.  Most forgings are made with 1018 because although cheap it has the properties that are nicely suited for golf equipment .  Companies that claim they use this special named steel or special order carbon steel are just putting a nice spin on what is essentially the exact same thing but to the ears of their customers sounds better.  So congratulations they have you and thousands others fooled.  The next time who wish to pop off about something you think you know about please take a couple plant tours of different manufacturers and ask to speak with their tour support department.  All manufacturers have them and the guys in there are more than willing to tell exactly what different players are playing with.  These guys are proud of the fact that some players use a handful of one off equipment and are more than willing to tell about the handful of oddities they are aware of.

[slymer58]

Pretty slick... [russian.gif]How's that Tour-issue Geek 7even working for you?

Dave

The 7 is heaven! I ordered a 4. thanks again

[folsomfinalist]

as for the inferior materials!?  you might be interested to know that some of the best forging steel is simply the cheapest raw material available.

a quote from Scratch Golf web site...
1018 Soft Carbon Steel, the softest and most responsive steel in golf.

Thanks for the insight.
Does 1020, 1025, 1030 steel cost more than 1018? If so why do most of the major OEMs use 1020 or 1025? I'd think they would want to use the cheapest and most marketable stuff, 1018.

[ND fan]

Thanks for the insight.
Does 1020, 1025, 1030 steel cost more than 1018? If so why do most of the major OEMs use 1020 or 1025? I'd think they would want to use the cheapest and most marketable stuff, 1018.

The last 2 digits represent carbon content percentage  ie, 1018 is 18% carbon and 1030 is 30% carbon.  The higher the carbon content the harder the steel.  I am not surprised that companies use high carbon steel but I couldn't say why  The harder steel get the more brittle it is this of course can be lessened by properly tempering the steel to a specific temperature.  But I am not exactly sure why one company would choose to use a harder material as the expense of forging harder materials increases tooling wear and hence cost.  What i would really like to see is a company that currently does good forging to case harden the finished product so the club would play and feel essentially the same but would show less bag chatter.

[TWshoot67]

remember tim is a bsg insider who has spent a lot of cash on clubs that he believes to be superior to anything mere mortals can buy.

I know a clubmaker is south Florida who does work for many on the Senior tour when they are in the Naples area over the winter. He laughed when I asked him about tour equipment. The pros he works with, and some have won the Masters, give him retail stuff and he tweeks it to their specs and maybe reshafts it. Pros do  not get special super equipment that allows them to do things mortals can't. Pros are better because of talent, coaching, proper fitting, practice, determination, etc. They don't buy their ability to play from a secret catalogue like some will have you believe.

I'd like you to prove that I bought one club from BSG. I've never bought one not one. I joined the insiders to demo clubs, my wife decided to re up so thats my business and hers not yours. I have my own friends that I met through college  for golf conections so for you to spout your claim about BSG and what I buy is complete BS. I go their to talk about golf. Its amazing you talk all this shit but your at BSG checking mup about me and whoever else you feel like slamming with your lies. Seriously who's the deadbeat, your day is consumed with trying to make others feel bad about what? If you call it doing every other golfer a service to out all the bad people in golf , maybe you should look in the mirror. looks like you have all the qualities of a good human being! You just so to come here and spout BS about people you don't even know. I haven't even played golf in 1 1/2 seasons as I have had a couple knee operations. I played junior hockey and met people through that route. Guess what there's many ice hockey players that love golf too. To talk about someone you don't know doesn't really make you sound very intelligent. But thats JMO. My names tim Whartenby nice to meet all the people here who really love golf. THATS WHAT I'M ABOUT! NOT TRYING TO IMPRESS ANYONE. I A UNION PLUMBER AND WHEN I RETIRE I'LL BE A CCM. I SURELY DON'T NEED TO IMPRESS ANYONE WHO TALKS BS.

[XtremeCruiser]

Attacking each other is not the answer, if you want tour clubs then there are resources out there where you can get them, if you want garbage can rejects then there is also a certain place where you can find them.
The tour vs retail debate is old, everyone knows the truth already

[TWshoot67]

I guess people will believe what they want to.  Yes there are prototypes and a handful of select equipment that may have been made for the Japanese market that never gets to the US or developmental stuff that never took off but the vast majority of equipment being used on tour is the same high end retail stuff anyone can buy.  Its just blueprinted for that particular player.  The funny thing is I have seen a couple exceptions and the manufacturer will go to great lengths to make it cosmetically look like something they normally produce and market but after ten years on tour bag I have seen this only a couple times.
My sister played on the LPGA for ten years and I have known a few PGA tour players and there was nothing in their bags I couldn't get a hold of as Joe Public Golfer.

as for the inferior materials!?  you might be interested to know that some of the best forging steel is simply the cheapest raw material available.

a quote from Scratch Golf web site...
1018 Soft Carbon Steel, the softest and most responsive steel in golf.

All of our irons and wedges are forged from 1018 carbon steel. 1018 carbon steel is the softest, most responsive steel in golf. Before coming out with our first Scratch wedge in 2003 we tested many different grades of steel and our 1018 carbon steel forgings provide by far the best feel of any clubs made in the world.

In the machining world 1018 is basically generic steel, most machined components for steel fabrication are made of this because it is the cheapest carbon steel you can buy primarily because it the most widely used in industry.  It also happens to be one material that can be manipulated in several different ways cold or hot and does not greatly change the metallurgical characteristics of the material, it is very versatile.  Most forgings are made with 1018 because although cheap it has the properties that are nicely suited for golf equipment .  Companies that claim they use this special named steel or special order carbon steel are just putting a nice spin on what is essentially the exact same thing but to the ears of their customers sounds better.  So congratulations they have you and thousands others fooled.  The next time who wish to pop off about something you think you know about please take a couple plant tours of different manufacturers and ask to speak with their tour support department.  All manufacturers have them and the guys in there are more than willing to tell exactly what different players are playing with.  These guys are proud of the fact that some players use a handful of one off equipment and are more than willing to tell about the handful of oddities they are aware of.

Love the disclaimer! But if you think for one minute that certain OEM's don't skimp or cut corners to make a buck then you believe what you want and I'll belive what I want. All I was trying to say that people who say that there are no tour only clubs are out of their mind. I have several sets that you can't but through retail. I didn't get these through any online store or any golf forum. I have friends like some other people do who play on tour , work for certain companies that are within the golf industry. i wasn't trying to say that All clubs mass produced are JUNK. If you actually read  I said there arer some really good retail offerings. I mentioned B-Stone, who are probably one of the most under rated companies. Titleist is always been about quality and so has Mizuno. I've played mizuno irons when I first started well actually I started with Hogan! Once apon a time Hogan was one of only a handful of companies that actually cared enough to frequency match their shafts. There are many good retail offerings. But none of any of this matters if your clubs are not FIT TO YOU! TOUR/RETAIL who cares! Tim

[TWshoot67]

Attacking each other is not the answer, if you want tour clubs then there are resources out there where you can get them, if you want garbage can rejects then there is also a certain place where you can find them.
The tour vs retail debate is old, everyone knows the truth already

Thank you! I didn't come here attacking anyone. I just reponded to an attack. I just love talking golf pure and simple! I don't know everything and am always willing to learn more, now if you want to talk plumbing then I know that subject better then any! LOL!

[SPY ZINGER]

remember tim is a bsg insider who has spent a lot of cash on clubs that he believes to be superior to anything mere mortals can buy.

I know a clubmaker is south Florida who does work for many on the Senior tour when they are in the Naples area over the winter. He laughed when I asked him about tour equipment. The pros he works with, and some have won the Masters, give him retail stuff and he tweeks it to their specs and maybe reshafts it. Pros do  not get special super equipment that allows them to do things mortals can't. Pros are better because of talent, coaching, proper fitting, practice, determination, etc. They don't buy their ability to play from a secret catalogue like some will have you believe.

Slime,

I am not sure how it works on the Champions tour, but the stuff offered on the PGA Tour Vans is usually CT/COR tested to ensure that it is at it's max without going over.  These and other specs are usually listed on a sticker on the head.  Also, the CG may differ depending on player needs.  But, magical materials and clandestine foundry production...I agree.  At least, that's what I was told during my visit here:

[XtremeCruiser]

Thank you! I didn't come here attacking anyone. I just reponded to an attack. I just love talking golf pure and simple! I don't know everything and am always willing to learn more, now if you want to talk plumbing then I know that subject better then any! LOL!

We all know there are magical materials used for kitchens in houses that cost over 3 mill, these sinks will never leak
I think its the tour only caulk

[mainuh]

I'd like you to prove that I bought one club from BSG. I've never bought one not one. I joined the insiders to demo clubs, my wife decided to re up so thats my business and hers not yours. I have my own friends that I met through college  for golf conections so for you to spout your claim about BSG and what I buy is complete BS. I go their to talk about golf. Its amazing you talk all this shit but your at BSG checking mup about me and whoever else you feel like slamming with your lies. Seriously who's the deadbeat, your day is consumed with trying to make others feel bad about what? If you call it doing every other golfer a service to out all the bad people in golf , maybe you should look in the mirror. looks like you have all the qualities of a good human being! You just so to come here and spout BS about people you don't even know. I haven't even played golf in 1 1/2 seasons as I have had a couple knee operations. I played junior hockey and met people through that route. Guess what there's many ice hockey players that love golf too. To talk about someone you don't know doesn't really make you sound very intelligent. But thats JMO. My names tim Whartenby nice to meet all the people here who really love golf. THATS WHAT I'M ABOUT! NOT TRYING TO IMPRESS ANYONE. I A UNION PLUMBER AND WHEN I RETIRE I'LL BE A CCM. I SURELY DON'T NEED TO IMPRESS ANYONE WHO TALKS BS.

Tim - with all due respect you have not earned the right to embellish your verbiage on this forum with only 12 posts.

Todd and the Wrx guys would have been all over your post with edits. Fortunately for us Ken and Co. allow for free wheeling expressions here and while the above is tolerated, you'll find very little of it.

rob

btw - not to worry, you don't impress me.

[TWshoot67]

Tim - with all due respect you have not earned the right to embellish your verbiage on this forum with only 12 posts.

Todd and the Wrx guys would have been all over your post with edits. Fortunately for us Ken and Co. allow for free wheeling expressions here and while the above is tolerated, you'll find very little of it.

rob

btw - not to worry, you don't impress me.

Sorry Rob, where did I embellish my verbage? When is a proper time to defend ones self 3,000 posts? Well i've posted on both (wrx, and bsg) and never been edited. btw so far the rading I've done on this forum all seems to be about slamming others. But like you said i only have 12 posts. Others must just post to get their count up so they feel they belong more than others.

[Jaylasvegas]

Sorry Rob, where did I embellish my verbage? When is a proper time to defend ones self 3,000 posts? Well i've posted on both (wrx, and bsg) and never been edited. btw so far the rading I've done on this forum all seems to be about slamming others. But like you said i only have 12 posts. Others must just post to get their count up so they feel they belong more than others.

ding dong

[XtremeCruiser]

Sorry Rob, where did I embellish my verbage? When is a proper time to defend ones self 3,000 posts? Well i've posted on both (wrx, and bsg) and never been edited. btw so far the rading I've done on this forum all seems to be about slamming others. But like you said i only have 12 posts. Others must just post to get their count up so they feel they belong more than others.

We only slam the garbage can bandits
Please try and show some respect to others.

[slymer58]

Slime,

I am not sure how it works on the Champions tour, but the stuff offered on the PGA Tour Vans is usually CT/COR tested to ensure that it is at it's max without going over.  These and other specs are usually listed on a sticker on the head.  Also, the CG may differ depending on player needs.  But, magical materials and clandestine foundry production...I agree.  At least, that's what I was told during my visit here:

Thanks for your pics. The only point I was trying to make was that "magical materials and clandestine foundry production" doesn't exist.

[slymer58]

I'd like you to prove that I bought one club from BSG. I've never bought one not one. I joined the insiders to demo clubs, my wife decided to re up so thats my business and hers not yours. I have my own friends that I met through college  for golf conections so for you to spout your claim about BSG and what I buy is complete BS. I go their to talk about golf. Its amazing you talk all this shit but your at BSG checking mup about me and whoever else you feel like slamming with your lies. Seriously who's the deadbeat, your day is consumed with trying to make others feel bad about what? If you call it doing every other golfer a service to out all the bad people in golf , maybe you should look in the mirror. looks like you have all the qualities of a good human being! You just so to come here and spout BS about people you don't even know. I haven't even played golf in 1 1/2 seasons as I have had a couple knee operations. I played junior hockey and met people through that route. Guess what there's many ice hockey players that love golf too. To talk about someone you don't know doesn't really make you sound very intelligent. But thats JMO. My names tim Whartenby nice to meet all the people here who really love golf. THATS WHAT I'M ABOUT! NOT TRYING TO IMPRESS ANYONE. I A UNION PLUMBER AND WHEN I RETIRE I'LL BE A CCM. I SURELY DON'T NEED TO IMPRESS ANYONE WHO TALKS BS.

If I offended, then  mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

[TWshoot67]

ding dong

I told ya earlier I like Devil Dogs 

Seriously though I never meant to offend anyone and If I did I'm truly sorry! I wasn't trying to say there was any majical hidden plant producing majical tour only clubs, But If you want ant Tour Issued Toilets I have only 2 left for sale. The Golden Crapper can take all crap and will disappear in ONE FLUSH! 

[idiotbox]

I told ya earlier I like Devil Dogs 

Seriously though I never meant to offend anyone and If I did I'm truly sorry! I wasn't trying to say there was any majical hidden plant producing majical tour only clubs, But If you want ant Tour Issued Toilets I have only 2 left for sale. The Golden Crapper can take all crap and will disappear in ONE FLUSH! 

I know of a place that could use a good flush. Lots of turds there.

[SPY ZINGER]

Thanks for your pics. The only point I was trying to make was that "magical materials and clandestine foundry production" doesn't exist.

Here is another example of the tour department FT-5...FWD markings not available at retail.
http://www.golfdigest.co.jp/golfmagazine/gear/pro_setting/uspga/mickelson.asp

[jimbonecrusher]

We all know there are magical materials used for kitchens in houses that cost over 3 mill, these sinks will never leak
I think its the tour only caulk

Kenny,

What is it with you always talking about caulk and stiff pype?

[jimbonecrusher]

I told ya earlier I like Devil Dogs 

Seriously though I never meant to offend anyone and If I did I'm truly sorry! I wasn't trying to say there was any majical hidden plant producing majical tour only clubs, But If you want ant Tour Issued Toilets I have only 2 left for sale. The Golden Crapper can take all crap and will disappear in ONE FLUSH! 

Don't worry about offending anybody here.  We all don't have feelings, and if we find out that somebody does have feelings, we ridicule them until they leave.  You have to also realize that many guys here on the site have personal dealings as well as hard feelings towards a group of guys who love lamborghini's, thumb rings, and Big Montana's.  The issue is that most don't want to see people squandered out of money, which we all work very hard for.  With all of the useless, inaccurate drivel that they have spewed, it is hard to let people understand that most of what they say is not true.  Believe what you will, but enjoy the ribbing that you will receive while on this website.