Mindboggling stat

[rp]

I was just browsing around on pgatour.com and found the longest drive stat. So far this year there have been 999 drives of 355 yds or more 

[Jaw2000]

If I can occasionally hit one 300 yds under less than ideal conditions, they should be hitting them even farther.  But that said, 1000 drives over 350 is rather scary.  What is the average length of a par 4 on tour?

[titleistprov1man]

I would think the average par 4 to be in the 460 range.  If the courses they play week in and week out are like Wachovia, and I think they are, they get 50 yards of roll.  Some don't believe that, but the fairways are so firm and so fast that it runs that far.  You get someone like Tiger, VJ, Phil, Sergio, Hoffman or anyone who carries it 280-290 and they get it out around 340-350.  I saw probably 10 drives close to 350 the two days at Wachovia in the same group!

[rp]

If I can occasionally hit one 300 yds under less than ideal conditions, they should be hitting them even farther.  But that said, 1000 drives over 350 is rather scary.  What is the average length of a par 4 on tour?

There are probably more than that over 350. They cut it off at the top 1000 and that is 355. I would think there would  be another 250 between 350 and 355.

[br61]

Time to raise the height of fairway grass and flood the fairways. Let's see how they like what rest of us hackers has to play with everyday.

[luckysevens777]

Time to raise the height of fairway grass and flood the fairways. Let's see how they like what rest of us hackers has to play with everyday.

I'd like to see how much actual roll they get after the ball lands...

-Lucky7

[DaveT319]

Time to raise the height of fairway grass and flood the fairways. Let's see how they like what rest of us hackers has to play with everyday.

I'd like to see how much actual roll they get after the ball lands...

-Lucky7

I've seen some that looked like they got 60-80 yards of roll. That'll help your driving stats!

Dave

[rp]

Time to raise the height of fairway grass and flood the fairways. Let's see how they like what rest of us hackers has to play with everyday.

I'd like to see how much actual roll they get after the ball lands...

-Lucky7

I've seen some that looked like they got 60-80 yards of roll. That'll help your driving stats!

Dave

Yeah no kidding. I have seen some down at Harbor Town that have gotten in excess of 50 easily. I think they also use alot of dog legs and get credit for more yardage than the ball actually travels. I know #5 at Harbor Town is one of the measuring holes. It is a monster if you go down the middle, but if you hug the left side, a average hitter can get there pretty easily. I would say just your target line could make 30 yds difference on that hole.

[luckysevens777]

Time to raise the height of fairway grass and flood the fairways. Let's see how they like what rest of us hackers has to play with everyday.

I'd like to see how much actual roll they get after the ball lands...

-Lucky7

I've seen some that looked like they got 60-80 yards of roll. That'll help your driving stats!

Dave

Yeah no kidding. I have seen some down at Harbor Town that have gotten in excess of 50 easily. I think they also use alot of dog legs and get credit for more yardage than the ball actually travels. I know #5 at Harbor Town is one of the measuring holes. It is a monster if you go down the middle, but if you hug the left side, a average hitter can get there pretty easily. I would say just your target line could make 30 yds difference on that hole.

I think they use shotlink for the measuring holes, so the numbers aren't skewed like that. They measure the distance from the tee I believe.

-Lucky7

[titleistprov1man]

Time to raise the height of fairway grass and flood the fairways. Let's see how they like what rest of us hackers has to play with everyday.

I'd like to see how much actual roll they get after the ball lands...

-Lucky7

I've seen some that looked like they got 60-80 yards of roll. That'll help your driving stats!

Dave

Yeah no kidding. I have seen some down at Harbor Town that have gotten in excess of 50 easily. I think they also use alot of dog legs and get credit for more yardage than the ball actually travels. I know #5 at Harbor Town is one of the measuring holes. It is a monster if you go down the middle, but if you hug the left side, a average hitter can get there pretty easily. I would say just your target line could make 30 yds difference on that hole.

I think they use shotlink for the measuring holes, so the numbers aren't skewed like that. They measure the distance from the tee I believe.

-Lucky7

Depends on how severe the dogleg.  If you hit one over the corner, there is no way that the shotlink laser can pick it up thru the trees.  They will use the one from the gree to shoot the remaining distnace and do the math to get what the drive was.  That takes off a good bit of yardage if you cut the corner.

[rp]

Time to raise the height of fairway grass and flood the fairways. Let's see how they like what rest of us hackers has to play with everyday.

I'd like to see how much actual roll they get after the ball lands...

-Lucky7

I've seen some that looked like they got 60-80 yards of roll. That'll help your driving stats!

Dave

Yeah no kidding. I have seen some down at Harbor Town that have gotten in excess of 50 easily. I think they also use alot of dog legs and get credit for more yardage than the ball actually travels. I know #5 at Harbor Town is one of the measuring holes. It is a monster if you go down the middle, but if you hug the left side, a average hitter can get there pretty easily. I would say just your target line could make 30 yds difference on that hole.

I think they use shotlink for the measuring holes, so the numbers aren't skewed like that. They measure the distance from the tee I believe.

-Lucky7

I was told by one of the shotlink guys they take the distance left and subtract that from the total of the hole. Seeing as they measure down the sprinkler line for the total, those numbers have to be skewed. Chris Smith had one a couple years ago in Orlando of 427. Trust me when I tell you this. On a flat golf course like that at sea level, Chris Smith cannot hit a ball that travels that far in a straight line.

[pd22]

Just another reason why I think this stat is fairly useless.  Sexy...yes.  Productive, no. 
Here is my point:  They only measure two drives a round, on holes where pros "most likely will use driver" and are as opposing to the elements as possible.  Unlike the GIR, and total FW's hit, and # putts (which are used through out the round) two holes is hardly a good statistical representation.

Second, because of the way they measure (and Lucky, I am sure they do this so they can use it in the "these guys are good" commercials,        )  as RP has said, its not accurate to the player.  What should be measured is what Lucky said, actual distance from tee to where the ball ended up. 

I think a better stat for this would be to measure driving distance on all par 4s and 5s and take that average. or do it by total yardage minus total distance left / number of 4s and 5s.  I think that is a better representation of how well a player is driving the ball.....measuring two holes is just not relevant for player stats.  HOWEVER, it is a good way to measure group stats and to compare the tourney to others and to measure the effect of technology / driving lenght over time for the tour. 

sorry, just a rant that has been rumbling in this old head of mine.

[rp]

I agree too. The way lucky put it is the way it should be done, but not as good for ratings. Another factor is conditions. They do not distinguish between elevation changes, or altitude differences. That can make a huge difference.

[BigDaddy13440]

"I was told by one of the shotlink guys they take the distance left and subtract that from the total of the hole."

If that's the case, I had a drive of 382 yards a couple of weeks ago. Playing at The Links at Hiawatha Landing near Binghamton, NY, I had a second shot of 112 yards in on a 494 yard par 5. I carried over the water, cutting about 60 yards off, then rolled downhill (fairway sloped to the left). The fairway was actually an elongated "W", so the yardages were skewed.

Hell, if I knew I could have carried the ball as far as I did, I could have gone for the second point of the "W", and been less than 30-40 yards in.

[luckysevens777]

Time to raise the height of fairway grass and flood the fairways. Let's see how they like what rest of us hackers has to play with everyday.

I'd like to see how much actual roll they get after the ball lands...

-Lucky7

I've seen some that looked like they got 60-80 yards of roll. That'll help your driving stats!

Dave

Yeah no kidding. I have seen some down at Harbor Town that have gotten in excess of 50 easily. I think they also use alot of dog legs and get credit for more yardage than the ball actually travels. I know #5 at Harbor Town is one of the measuring holes. It is a monster if you go down the middle, but if you hug the left side, a average hitter can get there pretty easily. I would say just your target line could make 30 yds difference on that hole.

I think they use shotlink for the measuring holes, so the numbers aren't skewed like that. They measure the distance from the tee I believe.

-Lucky7

I was told by one of the shotlink guys they take the distance left and subtract that from the total of the hole. Seeing as they measure down the sprinkler line for the total, those numbers have to be skewed. Chris Smith had one a couple years ago in Orlando of 427. Trust me when I tell you this. On a flat golf course like that at sea level, Chris Smith cannot hit a ball that travels that far in a straight line.

Tiger Woods cannot hit a ball that far on a flat course in a straight line... Long drivers barely can...

The longest drive I've ever hit when I stepped it off was 403, was it a straight line, yes, was it DOWNHILL, yes, but not huge, the wind was slightly in my face (Dave the Duffer saw the hole, Par 6 at Black Diamond from the back tee box, which plays 750 yards) if it listed the conditions then those would be believable. Sadly it doesn't, like when Tiger drove that 370 yard par 4 that was doggled and he carried it onto the green and everyone said he carried it 370, it was really more like 310, granted, it was a HELL OF A SHOT, but it was great over exaggerated... and I'm not sure if they measure the 'longest drive' stat on holes that they measure for the driving distance, because they do shotlink on just about every hole. And I know there was one hole this year (I don't remember what tourney) but the wind was severe for 2 days and play straight down this hole, and there was a giant downhill slope at like 310, and players were just bombing it down that and getting 60+ more yards than usual. Things like that aren't mentioned.

-Lucky7

[DaveTheDuffer]

Time to raise the height of fairway grass and flood the fairways. Let's see how they like what rest of us hackers has to play with everyday.

I'd like to see how much actual roll they get after the ball lands...

-Lucky7

I've seen some that looked like they got 60-80 yards of roll. That'll help your driving stats!

Dave

Yeah no kidding. I have seen some down at Harbor Town that have gotten in excess of 50 easily. I think they also use alot of dog legs and get credit for more yardage than the ball actually travels. I know #5 at Harbor Town is one of the measuring holes. It is a monster if you go down the middle, but if you hug the left side, a average hitter can get there pretty easily. I would say just your target line could make 30 yds difference on that hole.

I think they use shotlink for the measuring holes, so the numbers aren't skewed like that. They measure the distance from the tee I believe.

-Lucky7

I was told by one of the shotlink guys they take the distance left and subtract that from the total of the hole. Seeing as they measure down the sprinkler line for the total, those numbers have to be skewed. Chris Smith had one a couple years ago in Orlando of 427. Trust me when I tell you this. On a flat golf course like that at sea level, Chris Smith cannot hit a ball that travels that far in a straight line.

Tiger Woods cannot hit a ball that far on a flat course in a straight line... Long drivers barely can...

The longest drive I've ever hit when I stepped it off was 403, was it a straight line, yes, was it DOWNHILL, yes, but not huge, the wind was slightly in my face (Dave the Duffer saw the hole, Par 6 at Black Diamond from the back tee box, which plays 750 yards) if it listed the conditions then those would be believable. Sadly it doesn't, like when Tiger drove that 370 yard par 4 that was doggled and he carried it onto the green and everyone said he carried it 370, it was really more like 310, granted, it was a HELL OF A SHOT, but it was great over exaggerated... and I'm not sure if they measure the 'longest drive' stat on holes that they measure for the driving distance, because they do shotlink on just about every hole. And I know there was one hole this year (I don't remember what tourney) but the wind was severe for 2 days and play straight down this hole, and there was a giant downhill slope at like 310, and players were just bombing it down that and getting 60+ more yards than usual. Things like that aren't mentioned.

-Lucky7

Lucky is right, that hole is a monster.  I had never played a par 6 before...

[luckysevens777]

Time to raise the height of fairway grass and flood the fairways. Let's see how they like what rest of us hackers has to play with everyday.

I'd like to see how much actual roll they get after the ball lands...

-Lucky7

I've seen some that looked like they got 60-80 yards of roll. That'll help your driving stats!

Dave

Yeah no kidding. I have seen some down at Harbor Town that have gotten in excess of 50 easily. I think they also use alot of dog legs and get credit for more yardage than the ball actually travels. I know #5 at Harbor Town is one of the measuring holes. It is a monster if you go down the middle, but if you hug the left side, a average hitter can get there pretty easily. I would say just your target line could make 30 yds difference on that hole.

I think they use shotlink for the measuring holes, so the numbers aren't skewed like that. They measure the distance from the tee I believe.

-Lucky7

I was told by one of the shotlink guys they take the distance left and subtract that from the total of the hole. Seeing as they measure down the sprinkler line for the total, those numbers have to be skewed. Chris Smith had one a couple years ago in Orlando of 427. Trust me when I tell you this. On a flat golf course like that at sea level, Chris Smith cannot hit a ball that travels that far in a straight line.

Tiger Woods cannot hit a ball that far on a flat course in a straight line... Long drivers barely can...

The longest drive I've ever hit when I stepped it off was 403, was it a straight line, yes, was it DOWNHILL, yes, but not huge, the wind was slightly in my face (Dave the Duffer saw the hole, Par 6 at Black Diamond from the back tee box, which plays 750 yards) if it listed the conditions then those would be believable. Sadly it doesn't, like when Tiger drove that 370 yard par 4 that was doggled and he carried it onto the green and everyone said he carried it 370, it was really more like 310, granted, it was a HELL OF A SHOT, but it was great over exaggerated... and I'm not sure if they measure the 'longest drive' stat on holes that they measure for the driving distance, because they do shotlink on just about every hole. And I know there was one hole this year (I don't remember what tourney) but the wind was severe for 2 days and play straight down this hole, and there was a giant downhill slope at like 310, and players were just bombing it down that and getting 60+ more yards than usual. Things like that aren't mentioned.

-Lucky7

Lucky is right, that hole is a monster.  I had never played a par 6 before...

Too bad it was soaking wet and there was no roll and we only played the 720 yard tees and I had a buck 50 for my 3rd shot... but god damn I hate those greens... well not really, I think they are hilarious

-Lucky7

[rp]

"I was told by one of the shotlink guys they take the distance left and subtract that from the total of the hole."

If that's the case, I had a drive of 382 yards a couple of weeks ago. Playing at The Links at Hiawatha Landing near Binghamton, NY, I had a second shot of 112 yards in on a 494 yard par 5. I carried over the water, cutting about 60 yards off, then rolled downhill (fairway sloped to the left). The fairway was actually an elongated "W", so the yardages were skewed.

Hell, if I knew I could have carried the ball as far as I did, I could have gone for the second point of the "W", and been less than 30-40 yards in.

There is a par 5 like that at a nearby course. The 11th at The Wellman Club measures close to 600 yds and is flat, but the shape of the hole is alost a complete U around a lake. Most players hit a 4 or 5 iron off the back tee and then a fw or long iron to the green. So it honestly plays under 400 yds for someone that has the cajones to carry it across the lake.

[Jaw2000]

Solve the distance 'problem'?

A nice bunker here, new rough there, a large tree over on that side.  What problem!

[rp]

Solve the distance 'problem'?

A nice bunker here, new rough there, a large tree over on that side.  What problem!

That and play more old style courses ala Riviera, Colonial, and Harbor Town. Funny how those weeks you never see any of the huge drives on courses like that.

[DaveT319]

Time to raise the height of fairway grass and flood the fairways. Let's see how they like what rest of us hackers has to play with everyday.

I'd like to see how much actual roll they get after the ball lands...

-Lucky7

I've seen some that looked like they got 60-80 yards of roll. That'll help your driving stats!

Dave

Yeah no kidding. I have seen some down at Harbor Town that have gotten in excess of 50 easily. I think they also use alot of dog legs and get credit for more yardage than the ball actually travels. I know #5 at Harbor Town is one of the measuring holes. It is a monster if you go down the middle, but if you hug the left side, a average hitter can get there pretty easily. I would say just your target line could make 30 yds difference on that hole.

I think they use shotlink for the measuring holes, so the numbers aren't skewed like that. They measure the distance from the tee I believe.

-Lucky7

I was told by one of the shotlink guys they take the distance left and subtract that from the total of the hole. Seeing as they measure down the sprinkler line for the total, those numbers have to be skewed. Chris Smith had one a couple years ago in Orlando of 427. Trust me when I tell you this. On a flat golf course like that at sea level, Chris Smith cannot hit a ball that travels that far in a straight line.

I thought the whole thing with ShotLink was that with the lasers and GPS they were getting the straightline distances. It sure seems to be when you view the TourCast stuff on pgatour.com. I thought that was part of the reason they spent all the money to implement the system. Now granted, the driving distance numbers that the Tour uses does not use the ShotLink info. They still use the two holes and pace it off. But AFAIK, the ShotLink numbers are supposed to be the straightline distances.

Dave

[nochct]

the fairways are fast for a reason. if the fairway was soft and the grass long, these guys would be in the fairway all day. they have countless drives land in the fairway and roll into the rough. i love hearing people say "come to my course and see how long you are." pga tour pros hit the ball a long way, if they came to your course they would light it up. the fairways are fast so that these guys will be in the rough. the way to make it harder is to narrow the fairways.

[titleistprov1man]

the fairways are fast for a reason. if the fairway was soft and the grass long, these guys would be in the fairway all day. they have countless drives land in the fairway and roll into the rough. i love hearing people say "come to my course and see how long you are." pga tour pros hit the ball a long way, if they came to your course they would light it up. the fairways are fast so that these guys will be in the rough. the way to make it harder is to narrow the fairways.

I play with several of them on a regular basis.  I can tell you that I have played it both ways.  I would rather take my chances playing a bomber on my wet course with soft, long fairways all day.  They may be in teh rough, yes, but they will be hitting 4 more clubs into teh green.   These guys hit the ball cleanly enough with wedges that hitting out of the first cut of rough isn't that big of an issue.  Now where it gets tough is at the US Open, when they are 220 out and in teh rough.  That doesn't happen most of the time.  I would rather the guy have longer in that 4 clubs shorter from teh 1 inch rough every time.

[Twohey]

I wish I could consistently drive like that!  I'm happy with 275!