One Basic Swing?

[Paul Caligiuri]

What do people think of Nicklaus' concept of having one basic swing as he talks about here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4smKIu2uARU

I love anything that makes this game simpler but in practise this isn't working for me. In your opinions what aspects of the swing should stay the same and what should be different as you progress from 9 iron to Driver?

Ball position?
Steepness of swing path?
Stance width?
Grip?
Posture?
Weight distribution?

It seems that many pros play every shot with the ball positioned off the left heel, although that could be camera angles. I also was surprised how narrow some stances were for hitting driver.

[mr_divots]

Ball position will change. Shorter clubs will have more shaft lean forward with the ball back more in the stance (that's definitely camera angles that make it look like every shot is off the front foot.) The shaft angle and ball position will take care of the angle of attack.

I had my stance narrowed by a pro many years ago. All manner of bad things happen when my stance gets too wide. Mostly the narrower stance allows easier weight transfer to the front foot. This is something I have been paying attention to of late. It tends to get wider when I get tired and I'm really trying to "crank up" with the driver power. It never works. 

Posture tends to take care of weight distribution. I haven't thought about what percentage is on what foot or anything for years. As long as you can get off that back foot and finish with your weight on your front side, don't worry about that. (Narrower stance helps a ton again.)

As to the mechanics of the swing, as long as the ball position, posture, stance are OK, I don't give it a thought. Haven't for years.
Nicklaus was about the only instruction book I ever read. Common sense, easy to follow advice he gives. 

[BigLeftyinAZ]

Ball position for me is the same with irons,2 balls inside lead heel.What changes is the width of stance.Hybrids and fwy woods moves 1 ball closer to heel.

 Hall of Fame golfers Ben Hogan, Byron Nelson, Johnny Miller  and Greg Norman are of the same opinion: The ball does not have to move to accommodate different clubs.

[Sillybodkins]

Ball position for me is the same with irons,2 balls inside lead heel.What changes is the width of stance.Hybrids and fwy woods moves 1 ball closer to heel.

 Hall of Fame golfers Ben Hogan, Byron Nelson, Johnny Miller  and Greg Norman are of the same opinion: The ball does not have to move to accommodate different clubs.

I think that Hogan and certainly Nelson moved the ball back a bit for the irons, particularly the shorter irons.

If you find that Nicklaus' and Miller's one ball position don't work for you, then Tom Watson's ball positioning may be the ticket.  By the way, his new cd Lessons of a Lifetime is very good; nothing like rocket science - just the basics, with references to Sam Snead and Byron.  Tom talks about Jack's ball position, and Jack's alignment method, and then discloses his own.

[BigLeftyinAZ]

I think that Hogan and certainly Nelson moved the ball back a bit for the irons, particularly the shorter irons.

I'll disagree with you.It's an optical illusion.Hogan plays the ball 2 balls inside lead foot and adjusting stance width.  Do it in your living room. Set ball and club as a 6 iron then grab PW leaving ball in same spot,now narrow up your stance and it will now appear the ball is in the middle of your stance

[mr_divots]

I'll disagree with you.It's an optical illusion.Hogan plays the ball 2 balls inside lead foot and adjusting stance width.  Do it in your living room. Set ball and club as a 6 iron then grab PW leaving ball in same spot,now narrow up your stance and it will now appear the ball is in the middle of your stance

Doesn't the shaft lean create the offset with the shorter irons (hands ahead?) How does one maintain the shaft lean with a PW using a driver ball position, and conversely, how does one get around with the driver using a PW position for the driver?
I can tell where people are gonna hit their driver almost 99% of the time based on where their ball position is in their stance when I get paired up with people. (Or any club for that matter.) Too far forward with shorter clubs= fat. Never fails. Too far back with driver= fore right.

Edited to clarify which club/ball position/result.

[rok78]

Doesn't the shaft lean create the offset with the shorter irons (hands ahead?) How does one maintain the shaft lean with a PW using a driver ball position, and conversely, how does one get around with the driver using a PW position for the driver?
I can tell where people are gonna hit their driver almost 99% of the time based on where their ball position is in their stance when I get paired up with people. (Or any club for that matter.) Too far forward= fat. Never fails.

I move around the ball myself, but I can see playing one ball position. Width of stance, how you set up your centers over the ball (or behind), where you put your weight can allow for a wedge with a forward ball position or a driver with the ball back.

It is argued that Hogan kept the same ball position, but it looks like it moved around due to how he lined up his feet.

[BigLeftyinAZ]

Doesn't the shaft lean create the offset with the shorter irons (hands ahead?) How does one maintain the shaft lean with a PW using a driver ball position, and conversely, how does one get around with the driver using a PW position for the driver?
I can tell where people are gonna hit their driver almost 99% of the time based on where their ball position is in their stance when I get paired up with people. (Or any club for that matter.) Too far forward= fat. Never fails.

It's not driver position,driver position is off heel.Irons are 2 balls farther back.. The main reason is cause of where the bottom of the arc occurs and to have consistency

[mr_divots]

It's not driver position,driver position is off heel.Irons are 2 balls farther back.. The main reason is cause of where the bottom of the arc occurs and to have consistency

Adjusting my stance width is not something I am going to do as it will impede weight transfer. You can hit every club with your feet together if you wish to. The natural bottom of the swing path is easier to find, at least in my and Nicklaus' opinion, if the shaft angle leans forward into its natural playing position using a ball position further back for shorter irons. The club will bottom out right where its setting at address. There is less shaft lean as the clubs get longer and a lower resulting flight.

Hogan had impeccable timing, apparently.  Did he ever mention shaft angle in any of his swing thoughts? I just see a lot of thinned shots with what you are saying with the shorter clubs. Two balls off driver position I'm thinking is around 5i.

[BigLeftyinAZ]

Adjusting my stance width is not something I am going to do as it will impede weight transfer. You can hit every club with your feet together if you wish to. The natural bottom of the swing path is easier to find, at least in my and Nicklaus' opinion, if the shaft angle leans forward into its natural playing position using a ball position further back for shorter irons. The club will bottom out right where its setting at address. There is less shaft lean as the clubs get longer and a lower resulting flight.

Hogan had impeccable timing, apparently.  Did he ever mention shaft angle in any of his swing thoughts? I just see a lot of thinned shots with what you are saying with the shorter clubs. Two balls off driver position I'm thinking is around 5i.

As you have learned there is no one way of doing this.What works for you may not work for someone else.What I believe in may not work for you.

I don't believe it is timing that made hogan one of the best.Phil and Vjay have timing issues,hence the reason they are great streaky players.

[mr_divots]

As you have learned there is no one way of doing this.What works for you may not work for someone else.What I believe in may not work for you.

I don't believe it is timing that made hogan one of the best.Phil and Vjay have timing issues,hence the reason they are great streaky players.

I don't believe that timing is what made him great either. But nor do I think he used the same ball position for every iron/wedge in the bag and then adjusted the stance. As I have toyed around with this one ball position idea, and adjusting of the stance, the only thing that makes it seem as though the ball would be in position to make proper contact/bottom out is to open the stance for shorter irons, but in doing so the swing plane seems to be changed. Hogan was so plane-oriented, from what I understand, that it seems to go against his "main" premise.

[BigLeftyinAZ]

Swing arc. The narrower your stance, the steeper your swing arc. A steep swing arc is desirable with your short irons, because you want to launch the ball higher into the air. As the club lengthens and your stance widens, the clubhead moves on a wider, shallower path -- a more efficient arc for longer shots.

Balancing the axis. The bottom of the swing arc is influenced by the balancing of the body's axis. This axis is most clearly seen as you hold your finish. Your spine should be balanced on top of your left leg, with your right side supporting.

I teach the single-ball-position theory because I want my students to establish that axis, in reference to the location of the ball, with the backswing. That sets up the forward swing, which is basically a balanced rotation on that axis. If you keep changing your ball position, the ball moving around in your stance influences how your body balances on this axis. With the woods and long irons the ball is farther forward in the stance, allowing your body to shift onto that forward side. But as the ball moves back in your stance for the short irons, your body cannot shift its balance ahead of the ball. Instead, you hang back on your right side.
The multi-ball position creates inconsistencies in transferring balance on to the left side. With the ball positioned in the middle of your stance, if you try to shift your weight on to your left side in the forward swing, the bottom of the arc moves ahead of the ball and you will catch the ball low on the grooves with an open club face. In order to keep the bottom of the arc matching the balls position, your body must hang back on the right side, this can be dangerous due to the possibility of chunking the ball.

[BigLeftyinAZ]

Here is ben with two different clubs,clearly tell stance has changed

[BigLeftyinAZ]

This is pretty much How I do it with a few differences
2 balls back all irons
1 ball back hybrids and fwy woods.
4 iron might be between the two

[lenman73]

Damn dude .  What you are saying makes total sense to me anyways.  I am givin this a go next time I go out.  Thank you