Shaft pullers, including the "Silvestri" product.

[Dr.Green]

That was a heck of an interesting read! Thank you for taking the time to post that. 

[rlheiman]

Wow,  that is really interesting.

So did that lawsuit in fact bring about the end of the company?  or what did?  Maybe I missed that in the posts.

The products sounds and look amazing.  Now you've got me wanting to upgrade my home shop to much better equipment.

[drewspin]

Fascinating story!

[CDBomb]

That's a very engaging story, Mike.  Since that is sort of what I do for a living, I have to say that you did a very good job of summarizing the procedural details.  I'd be giving you an A if you were a first-year law student in Civil Procedure.

I am curious as to why Mitchell sued various sellers separately (and thereby had Summonses issued to be served at a trade show, but did not file any suit at all versus your company), but as I say you've done a remarkable job of retelling it.

As for my trip to Mitchell's facility outside of Dayton; I simply went there because I had another trip to Columbus, and took a side-trip to Dayton, where I had already ordered an M-1 Hobbyist Steelclub.  (Mind you, I didn't start this thread to advertise and praise, or to criticize, Mitchell l & l machines.)  I had a simpleminded notion that Steelclub machines were fragile enough, and heavy enough, that it would be better to pick it up than to have it shipped.  All that they knew about me was that I was visiting from Michigan, that I was an attorney by vocation and a golf hobbyist by avocation, and that I posted regularly on some golf discussion boards.  I had thought it was just a slow day at Mitchell, and that is why Ed Mitchell met me personally; maybe he thought I was on a recon mission.  (I wasn't.)  We had a very genial conversation; Ed Mitchell's in-laws are from Michigan, he took me around and showed me a whole room full of collectible clubs, and he has memorabilia from decades of being specially invited to the Masters to set up a mobile shop.  In a way, if I am not mistken, the whole notion of a "tour van" owes much to Mitchell; the visionaries at Augusta thought that they'd treat their players special and offer them Mitchell's club repair services.  The manufacturers then got the same idea.

Anyway, the Mitchell operation is not exactly a Fortune 500 company, as you probably know.  Litigation is ghastly expensive for anybody at its very best, and at its worst, it can be ruinous for everybody but the lawyers.  If Mitchell fought every new l & l machine that came along, they must have lost a half-dozen patent cases by now.  Maybe they have; I don't know.  I'd never suggest that you go into business with Ed Mitchell to license the production of your tools, but as I already said, your GSE-extractor unit is better than anything I've seen on the market, and your l & l machine looks superior to what Golfsmith or Maltby have sold at an equivalent price.  Have you thought of licensing the designs?

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts and recollections.

[BuddhaKat]

Mike,

I stand corrected on your product.  It sounds like a winner.  I might have to start searching the used market.  I like the dual tension spring for proper removal.

Welcome to the board.

Thank you for the welcome.  It's my pleasure to be here.  

I went back into my drawings to see if I could find an assembly drawing that showed the spring system. Unfortunately I couldn't find one.  I thought I did one but I haven't been into those files for years and I don't remember where it would be or even if I did one or not.  I'm getting forgetful in my old age.  

[BuddhaKat]

Wow,  that is really interesting.

So did that lawsuit in fact bring about the end of the company?  or what did?  Maybe I missed that in the posts.

The products sounds and look amazing.  Now you've got me wanting to upgrade my home shop to much better equipment.

The expense of the lawsuit was a heavy burden on RMI.  One that it ultimately wouldn't be able to bear.  But fate struck a bit early.  I came down with a disease called Lupus.  There are lots of types of Lupus, some not so bad, others quite serious.  I had the worst kind of all.  My body was attacking itself and I was near death.  Having nothing of value other than the designs of my products I assigned all rights to them to my girlfriend, in the hopes she could sell them someday.  Then I didn't die. 

In fact, I started getting a little better.  At the time I was using outside machine shops to manufacture everything.  That was a huge headache. So, my lady and I sat down to discuss the state of affairs and it was decided that she would open a machine shop and I would run it. Thus, Silvestri Enterprises was born.  She didn't have any of the debt load of RMI and she owned all the IP. 

I still had Lupus though and it was hard working and running a machine shop, especially in a bad economy.  Things were tight and she and I ended up having to do just about everything.  Somewhere in 2005 I had to stop.  I couldn't do it anymore.  It was just too hard on me physically.  It put me in the hospital several times and the stress was killing her, and our relationship.  Sometimes in life, you have to take a hard look at your priorities.

It was tearful putting the key in the door for the last time.  I had gone through so much, but she was more important to me than anything.  We're still together and our relationship is stronger than ever. She is the center of my universe.

[drewspin]

Mike,

First, glad to hear you are better healthwise.

Second, what is the state of the intellectual property of Silvestri Enterprises?  Seems to me you and your girlfriend/wife have something of considerable value in the designs you created, especially so considering they were found non-infringing in court.

[BuddhaKat]

That's a very engaging story, Mike.  Since that is sort of what I do for a living, I have to say that you did a very good job of summarizing the procedural details.  I'd be giving you an A if you were a first-year law student in Civil Procedure.

I am curious as to why Mitchell sued various sellers separately (and thereby had Summonses issued to be served at a trade show, but did not file any suit at all versus your company), but as I say you've done a remarkable job of retelling it.

As for my trip to Mitchell's facility outside of Dayton; I simply went there because I had another trip to Columbus, and took a side-trip to Dayton, where I had already ordered an M-1 Hobbyist Steelclub.  (Mind you, I didn't start this thread to advertise and praise, or to criticize, Mitchell l & l machines.)  I had a simpleminded notion that Steelclub machines were fragile enough, and heavy enough, that it would be better to pick it up than to have it shipped.  All that they knew about me was that I was visiting from Michigan, that I was an attorney by vocation and a golf hobbyist by avocation, and that I posted regularly on some golf discussion boards.  I had thought it was just a slow day at Mitchell, and that is why Ed Mitchell met me personally; maybe he thought I was on a recon mission.  (I wasn't.)  We had a very genial conversation; Ed Mitchell's in-laws are from Michigan, he took me around and showed me a whole room full of collectible clubs, and he has memorabilia from decades of being specially invited to the Masters to set up a mobile shop.  In a way, if I am not mistken, the whole notion of a "tour van" owes much to Mitchell; the visionaries at Augusta thought that they'd treat their players special and offer them Mitchell's club repair services.  The manufacturers then got the same idea.

Anyway, the Mitchell operation is not exactly a Fortune 500 company, as you probably know.  Litigation is ghastly expensive for anybody at its very best, and at its worst, it can be ruinous for everybody but the lawyers.  If Mitchell fought every new l & l machine that came along, they must have lost a half-dozen patent cases by now.  Maybe they have; I don't know.  I'd never suggest that you go into business with Ed Mitchell to license the production of your tools, but as I already said, your GSE-extractor unit is better than anything I've seen on the market, and your l & l machine looks superior to what Golfsmith or Maltby have sold at an equivalent price.  Have you thought of licensing the designs?

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts and recollections.

The only thing we could conclude about why Ed went after the sellers was simply to stop distribution.  Would you continue to sell someone else's product if you got a threatening letter from the head cheese at some big law firm?  Hell, their letterhead took up half the page. Usually that would have been enough.  In Raven Golf's case, Ed knew Tony was coming out with his own L&L machine and he knew Tony would be at the show.  He had a booth.  Ed didn't know I'd be there since I didn't have a booth.  I figured I'd hang around the Dynacraft booth and make the rounds when I could.  Don't get me wrong, I think that if he knew I was going to be there he would have filed, but I suspect his main objective was to just stop sales.  He even threatened the PGA for them being a part of the infringement.  They told him to go pound sand.

I really haven't followed golf too much in the years since we closed Silvestri.  I did look at a few of the big name websites after Ron called me and was pleasantly surprised to see come new iron on the market.  As to whether Ed's going after people or not, I couldn't say.  I know our success cleared away a lot of the legal gray areas Ed liked to play in. We spanked him pretty hard. Ed may have discovered that the mere existence of competition isn't as harmful as he thought.  

The fact there is now competition pleases me very much. Nothing would make me happier than to see some of my inventions make it back into the mainstream. All of my designs belong in public domain so people are free to manufacture anything they want.  I'd be happy to sell the actual designs if someone was interested in manufacturing them.  The Speed Clamp is flat out the best shaft clamp there is.  We had em on all the tour vans. It's truly a million dollar product, but it has its secrets. It would be cheaper to buy my prints than to reverse engineer it.  The Universal is flat out the best loft & lie machine ever made.  Nothing is as accurate, repeatable, or as versatile as it.  If someone could make it in China it would be profitable.

[CDBomb]

I will try to forward a link to this message thread to Ari Techner of Scratch Golf.  Ari's a good guy, and I happen to know that he's been in China lately scouting a few things.  I don't work for Ari, and have never represented him or Scratch -- I'd be saying nothing about him if I did.

Wouldn't it be an interesting spinoff for a high-end manufacturer of fine forged clubs, to also offer  the things that all fine forging-fanatics require:  a world-class loft-lie machine and the best shaft-puller ever designed?  Scratch has just enough of a tour presence now, with a tour van, and with exposure on every tour, that it might be an interesting synergy, particularly with the Speed Clamp.

PM me, Mike, if you want my e-mail address.

[BuddhaKat]

Mike,

First, glad to hear you are better healthwise.

Second, what is the state of the intellectual property of Silvestri Enterprises?  Seems to me you and your girlfriend/wife have something of considerable value in the designs you created, especially so considering they were found non-infringing in court.

Well, like I said in the above post, I still have all the designs.  Hell, I've even got most of the CNC program code. Since I never patented anything it's all free for the taking, but I'd be happy to shorten the learning curve if someone's interested.  I'd love to either sell off the designs or get back into designing new stuff. I suppose we still own the trademarks, but nothing would make me happier than to see the Universal get back on the market. I really feel it is one of the most significant accomplishments I have made in my life. I also feel that I did something good for the golf industry by knocking down the barrier Mitchell put up.

My phone number is still on the SilvestriEnterprises.com website.  I'm just sitting around most of the time so anyone can call if they want.

Cheers,
Mike

[bcheeks]

Interesting read.  Thanks for taking the time to post Mike. 

[drewspin]

I will try to forward a link to this message thread to Ari Techner of Scratch Golf.  Ari's a good guy, and I happen to know that he's been in China lately scouting a few things.  I don't work for Ari, and have never represented him or Scratch -- I'd be saying nothing about him if I did.

Wouldn't it be an interesting spinoff for a high-end manufacturer of fine forged clubs, to also offer  the things that all fine forging-fanatics require:  a world-class loft-lie machine and the best shaft-puller ever designed?  Scratch has just enough of a tour presence now, with a tour van, and with exposure on every tour, that it might be an interesting synergy, particularly with the Speed Clamp.

PM me, Mike, if you want my e-mail address.

Ari has a Universal L&L, BTW.

[Fairwayfred]

Mike,

I am VERY glad to hear that you are doing so much better!  I dont know if you remember us but I believe that we bought the last Universal machine that you sold when you were going out of business.  You would have talked to our Chief Design Engineer Jeff McCoy.  Your machine is definitely the best in the industry.  I will give you a call sometime tomorrow.  Maybe there could be some synergy to discuss between the 2 of us.



-Ari

[rlheiman]

Mike,

I am VERY glad to hear that you are doing so much better!  I dont know if you remember us but I believe that we bought the last Universal machine that you sold when you were going out of business.  You would have talked to our Chief Design Engineer Jeff McCoy.  Your machine is definitely the best in the industry.  I will give you a call sometime tomorrow.  Maybe there could be some synergy to discuss between the 2 of us.



-Ari

Ari and Mike,

I hope that something positive can come of this.  I'd be rather interested in some of the products on silvestri's old website.

Hopefully they can work something out to benefit all of us.

[BuddhaKat]

Mike,

I am VERY glad to hear that you are doing so much better!  I dont know if you remember us but I believe that we bought the last Universal machine that you sold when you were going out of business.  You would have talked to our Chief Design Engineer Jeff McCoy.  Your machine is definitely the best in the industry.  I will give you a call sometime tomorrow.  Maybe there could be some synergy to discuss between the 2 of us.



-Ari

Looking forward to it.  

You've got my number. It's on your Universal.

[CDBomb]

Ari, that earlier e-mail was from my lawfirm e-mail address.  You're welcome to e-mail me or call me there anytime.

All the best to you and the Scratch team.

Chuck

[egolfer]

WOW! What a great story.

I WAS going to buy a Mitchell Hobbyist l&l machine this year, but after reading this topic I am going to do more research and support the "lil guys" out there. I understand Micthell does make a good product, but I've always tried to support smaller businesses and local businesses when I can find the same quality as the big companies.

Thinking of buying one of those Blue l&l machine now.

[BuddhaKat]

WOW! What a great story.

I WAS going to buy a Mitchell Hobbyist l&l machine this year, but after reading this topic I am going to do more research and support the "lil guys" out there. I understand Micthell does make a good product, but I've always tried to support smaller businesses and local businesses when I can find the same quality as the big companies.

Thinking of buying one of those Blue l&l machine now.

A L&L machine is a pretty significant investment for anyone so I always advise people to shop for what they need.  Obviously a volume club repair shop is going to need a first class piece of equipment, but believe me, the best 'name' in the business doesn't always mean the best machine in the business.  Back when I was dealing with Mitchell his manufacturing was basically limited to a manual Bridgeport mill and jigs.  Back then, people told me it was possible to have two identical machines give two different readings on the same club.  However, I understand Mitchell has thoroughly modernized his machine shop so I'd imagine that problem went away.  I've been out of the business for so long now I couldn't say what's good or not.  I do know that I had my machinist cost out manufacturing a SteelClub many years ago and he came back with a quote of $200.  The SteelClub was selling for just under a grand at the time, if my memory serves me correctly. Now you know why Ed's so rich. 

[BigLeftyinAZ]

Great story.Sorry,it about broke you to win the case.But,You are feeling proud that you beat ED at his own game

[CDBomb]

A L&L machine is a pretty significant investment for anyone so I always advise people to shop for what they need.  Obviously a volume club repair shop is going to need a first class piece of equipment, but believe me, the best 'name' in the business doesn't always mean the best machine in the business.  Back when I was dealing with Mitchell his manufacturing was basically limited to a manual Bridgeport mill and jigs.  Back then, people told me it was possible to have two identical machines give two different readings on the same club.  However, I understand Mitchell has thoroughly modernized his machine shop so I'd imagine that problem went away.  I've been out of the business for so long now I couldn't say what's good or not.  I do know that I had my machinist cost out manufacturing a SteelClub many years ago and he came back with a quote of $200.  The SteelClub was selling for just under a grand at the time, if my memory serves me correctly. Now you know why Ed's so rich. 

Of course, Mike, if we priced out the cost out the manufacturing of an r9 Supertri head, it would be about 25 bucks.  And a shaft would cost out at about 15 bucks, right?

I always wondered how many Steelclub machines would get sold in a year.  Naturally, I'm not disagreeing with your facts; just saying (and nobody knows better than you) that the golf equipment bisuiness is a brutally hard way to get rich, and unless you are in it for the love of it, you're probably doing the wrong thing.

[BuddhaKat]

Of course, Mike, if we priced out the cost out the manufacturing of an r9 Supertri head, it would be about 25 bucks.  And a shaft would cost out at about 15 bucks, right?

I always wondered how many Steelclub machines would get sold in a year.  Naturally, I'm not disagreeing with your facts; just saying (and nobody knows better than you) that the golf equipment bisuiness is a brutally hard way to get rich, and unless you are in it for the love of it, you're probably doing the wrong thing.

It takes those kinds of margins to get rich in any business.  I always thought it was excessive, but then I loved the game. I don't begrudge anyone making a profit, and I think that the market is responsible for driving prices.  If you can get it, get it.  But using the existence of a patent to bully competitors from entering the market is morally wrong and unhealthy for any industry.  For example, after our suit was over and Mitchell had no choice other than to live with a competitor, he improved the quality of his products, developed new products, and expanded into other products and services.  He's in a better place now than he was back then and I think it was because he no longer had a monopoly.  I applaud him for taking the bull by the horns and making a success of it.

[NewJerichoMan]

It's story like these that reminds everyone why we all hate lawyers.  Of course, this Mitchel character sounds like a close 2nd. 

Great story BhuddaKat.  Thanks for sharing.

[mainuh]

Mike,

I am VERY glad to hear that you are doing so much better!  I dont know if you remember us but I believe that we bought the last Universal machine that you sold when you were going out of business.  You would have talked to our Chief Design Engineer Jeff McCoy.  Your machine is definitely the best in the industry.  I will give you a call sometime tomorrow.  Maybe there could be some synergy to discuss between the 2 of us.



-Ari

And too think that this whole conversation started out because of my dopey phone call...

Should something come to fruition between you both, please remember me when the time comes for my purcha$e of a L/L machine. 

rob

[BuddhaKat]

And too think that this whole conversation started out because of my dopey phone call...

Should something come to fruition between you both, please remember me when the time comes for my purcha$e of a L/L machine. 

rob

Mercedes or Porsche? 

[camster8]

The only thing we could conclude about why Ed went after the sellers was simply to stop distribution.  Would you continue to sell someone else's product if you got a threatening letter from the head cheese at some big law firm?  Hell, their letterhead took up half the page. Usually that would have been enough.  In Raven Golf's case, Ed knew Tony was coming out with his own L&L machine and he knew Tony would be at the show.  He had a booth.  Ed didn't know I'd be there since I didn't have a booth.  I figured I'd hang around the Dynacraft booth and make the rounds when I could.  Don't get me wrong, I think that if he knew I was going to be there he would have filed, but I suspect his main objective was to just stop sales.  He even threatened the PGA for them being a part of the infringement.  They told him to go pound sand.

I really haven't followed golf too much in the years since we closed Silvestri.  I did look at a few of the big name websites after Ron called me and was pleasantly surprised to see come new iron on the market.  As to whether Ed's going after people or not, I couldn't say.  I know our success cleared away a lot of the legal gray areas Ed liked to play in. We spanked him pretty hard. Ed may have discovered that the mere existence of competition isn't as harmful as he thought.  

The fact there is now competition pleases me very much. Nothing would make me happier than to see some of my inventions make it back into the mainstream. All of my designs belong in public domain so people are free to manufacture anything they want.  I'd be happy to sell the actual designs if someone was interested in manufacturing them.  The Speed Clamp is flat out the best shaft clamp there is.  We had em on all the tour vans. It's truly a million dollar product, but it has its secrets. It would be cheaper to buy my prints than to reverse engineer it.  The Universal is flat out the best loft & lie machine ever made.  Nothing is as accurate, repeatable, or as versatile as it.  If someone could make it in China it would be profitable.

Wow, nice story and thanks for sharing...  Kinda makes me want to throw my Steel Angle Plus machine off my loading dock...