Heard the new Nike Method Putters Suck

[tommyk90]

As promised, I picked up the 003 at work and looked for myself.  Sure enough, when just laying there with the shaft vertical, it does rock closed



Only when you push your hands forward does it set up square



But for comparison purposes, here's an XG #9 that does the same thing

Hands neutral


Hands forward


Just the way the putter is designed I suppose.

[bcheeks]

thanks for taking those pics tommy 

[NewJerichoMan]

thanks for taking those pics tommy 

What he said, moojo

[Indacup]

As promised, I picked up the 003 at work and looked for myself.  Sure enough, when just laying there with the shaft vertical, it does rock closed



Only when you push your hands forward does it set up square



But for comparison purposes, here's an XG #9 that does the same thing

Hands neutral


Hands forward


Just the way the putter is designed I suppose.

Still not buying it guys.

Three reasons....

1) The pictures show a head manipulated at least 10-15*...no club ever made had that kind of closed angle.
2) Holding a club in your hands is not a calibrated device...hands/grip is not a perfect anchoring system.
3) It looks like the flat end of the grip is very much perpendicular to the face of the head.... in other wards, the angle of the front of the grip is equally as off kilter as the club face.

[bcheeks]

Still not buying it guys.

Three reasons....

1) The pictures show a head manipulated at least 10-15*...no club ever made had that kind of closed angle.
2) Holding a club in your hands is not a calibrated device...hands/grip is not a perfect anchoring system.
3) It looks like the flat end of the grip is very much perpendicular to the face of the head.... in other wards, the angle of the front of the grip is equally as off kilter as the club face.

WHATEVER.  The head is not manipulated, it rocks closed.  I feel like I'm arguing with my wife.  Do you even understand what rocks closed means?  You set the club down, loose in your hands behind the ball and let it sit how it wants to sit.  Some putters rock closed, other do not.  This 003 does.

[Indacup]

Look at this picture...


You see the right side of the grip and an angled face......so of COUSE the head is going to appear closed if taken from that angle.



I am not a Nike dealer...so I have no "pony in this race"...but I work with another company who we buy from and sell to..he should have these in stock and I will see for myself this afternoon.

I COULD be wrong, and if so, I will be thrilled to announce a company I really don't care for fvcked up...LOL....but I really don't see it happening. Not this time.

[Indacup]

WHATEVER.  The head is not manipulated, it rocks closed.  I feel like I'm arguing with my wife.  Do you even understand what rocks closed means?  You set the club down, loose in your hands behind the ball and let it sit how it wants to sit.  Some putters rock closed, other do not.  This 003 does.

I am sorry, I did not realize this thread was meant to be a springboard to insult others....

Please forgive me if I don't lower myself to your standards.

[bcheeks]

I am sorry, I did not realize this thread was meant to be a springboard to insult others....

Please forgive me if I don't lower myself to your standards.

I do not understand your reasoning.  Several people have confirmed they do in fact rock closed.  Two different people have provided two different pictures showing the same thing yet you continue to say it's operator error in the picture taking.  The guys taking the pictures were also there and holding the putter first hand, I think they'd realize it if the putter didn't actually rock closed and it was just an optical illusion because of their poor picture taking abilities.

 

[Indacup]

I do not understand your reasoning.  Several people have confirmed they do in fact rock closed.  Two different people have provided two different pictures showing the same thing yet you continue to say it's operator error in the picture taking.  The guys taking the pictures were also there and holding the putter first hand, I think they'd realize it if the putter didn't actually rock closed and it was just an optical illusion because of their poor picture taking abilities.

 

You guys may be right!

I may be wrong…trust me, it would not be the first (or last) time I’ve been proven wrong…I am just expressing my opinion…and that is what I stated above…which it appears the camera angle and in some cases, the way it’s held distorts the image and perception.

Surely, you or anyone cannot accept that the face sits 10-15* closed as implied by some pictures.

Awhile back I posted three pictures of a protractor on the ground with tape at square, 2* closed and 2* open and asked people (challenging those who claimed they could determine angles from a camera on the internet)…and no one could.

Look at this image.... this is taken from less than 2' away...imagine trying to determine closed face of a degree or two from 6 FEET away!

Before we got our bending machine, when we assembled putters we double check accuracy by setting the putter on a flat surface so the flat side of the grip is facing down…and the head of the putter draped off the edge. Then using a protractor measured the angle of the head in relation to the table top to assure a 90* angle.

Anyone can do this and assure conformance.

But I read where some are saying that this putter has sole attributes that leads to a closed face…..that, obviously cannot be determined off a table top…but CAN be confirmed in our machine. But I would be really hard pressed to believe that Nike would create a putter with a variable bounce sole….going from positive to negative bounce.

But again, I could be wrong and I will have no problem saying so…I just reserve the right to see for myself and not being told what to believe.

[Indacup]

I just got off the phone with my peer and he said he has one in stock...I will drop by and check it out in a couple hours.....and we shall see if I am right or wrong!

Stay tuned!

[Braithwaite]

I just got off the phone with my peer and he said he has one in stock...I will drop by and check it out in a couple hours.....and we shall see if I am right or wrong!

Stay tuned!

You will be wrong, I don't understand your arguments against everyone even with pictures, putters often do rock close just like the picture shows. Which makes the grip/shaft move as well. Pretty sure that the balance point means these are off and that is why they do that, I could be wrong for that but I know for a fact when you have your hands very lightly on many putters they sit shut, not sure what is so damn hard to grasp here. 

[Indacup]

"... I don't understand your arguments against everyone even with pictures..."

Do I need to reiterate my reasons again?

I have seen, many times over the years clubs get a bad rap and diminished sales due to inaccurate online "information"....I cannot even BEGIN to count all the clubs that saw sales plummet after someone took a picture of it at address from the wrong side or had the club accidentally delofted and word spread that it was defective.

Like I said, I will see for myself and report back...why are you people taking it so personally? It's not like I'm checking your kid's blood type to confirm you're the real fathers or not...LOL.

If I am wrong, I am wrong...I guess I should ask, why does my needing to find out on my own, mean so much to you?

[Braithwaite]

Do I need to reiterate my reasons again?

I have seen, many times over the years clubs get a bad rap and diminished sales due to inaccurate online "information"....I cannot even BEGIN to count all the clubs that saw sales plummet after someone took a picture of it at address from the wrong side or had the club accidentally delofted and word spread that it was defective.

Like I said, I will see for myself and report back...why are you people taking it so personally? It's not like I'm checking your kid's blood type to confirm you're the real fathers or not...LOL.

If I am wrong, I am wrong...I guess I should ask, why does my needing to find out on my own, mean so much to you?

 

[Lagolf31]

I had the WhiteHot XG#9 and as soon as you set it down...boom, toe in!  It certainly rocks closed.  Why did I buy it in the first place you ask?  Eh, I am a ho.
Plus, I like it when things touch my balls 

[NewJerichoMan]

I had the WhiteHot XG#9 and as soon as you set it down...boom, toe in!  It certainly rocks closed.  Why did I buy it in the first place you ask?  Eh, I am a ho.
Plus, I like it when things touch my balls  

No wonder you're such good friends with Rockford.  

[tommyk90]

Still not buying it guys.

Three reasons....

1) The pictures show a head manipulated at least 10-15*...no club ever made had that kind of closed angle.
2) Holding a club in your hands is not a calibrated device...hands/grip is not a perfect anchoring system.
3) It looks like the flat end of the grip is very much perpendicular to the face of the head.... in other wards, the angle of the front of the grip is equally as off kilter as the club face.

I'm not sure what else I can do.  I have no way of accurately measuring toe-in on a putter.  It's not something you can measure when it's clamped into our machine since that doesn't take into consideration the SOLE of the club, which is causing the rocking.

I thought the pictures I took were a good representation of what happens.  I even had two customers next to me who noticed the same thing, but it seems you're that inconvinciable person who has to be right in every circumstance because you THINK you know more than others, regardless on if you've actually experienced in person for yourself.

Also, if you didn't notice my hands aren't even on the club.  I showed what happens you when you just let the putter sit with no human involvement.

Of course the grip is going to turn when the ENTIRE CLUB TURNS.  The grip and clubface are perpendicular to one another when you look down the grip.  If the clubface turns closed when you set the putter down, wouldn't it make sense that the grip is going to turn an equal amount?  I didn't manipulate these results in any way.  I was skeptical much like you until I went in and looked for myself.  Sure enough, the putter turns in.  Would you like me to take a video next time?  Or am I just incompetent?

[tommyk90]

Like I said, I will see for myself and report back...why are you people taking it so personally? It's not like I'm checking your kid's blood type to confirm you're the real fathers or not...LOL.

If I am wrong, I am wrong...I guess I should ask, why does my needing to find out on my own, mean so much to you?

We're taking it personally because, whether you think so or not, you are indirectly calling all of us either stupid or incompetent.  Several people have picked this putter up IN PERSON and said the same thing over and over, but you come in here spouting off "no manufacturer would ever do that, it's impossible, blah blah blah" all the while never actually seeing it for yourself. 

You are "accurately" describing a club you have ZERO personal experience with, and in the process saying those who HAVE used it are all wrong.

You don't see why maybe people would get a little upset?

If you disagreed, ok thats cool, but maybe you should have reserved your opinion (and reasons for it) until after you went and looked for yourself.  Why?  Because I, among others, think you are going to feel stupid once you go in and realize that the putter does, in fact, turn in.  You made a big mess of this thread all for nothing.

[Braithwaite]

We're taking it personally because, whether you think so or not, you are indirectly calling all of us either stupid or incompetent.  Several people have picked this putter up IN PERSON and said the same thing over and over, but you come in here spouting off "no manufacturer would ever do that, it's impossible, blah blah blah" all the while never actually seeing it for yourself.  

You are "accurately" describing a club you have ZERO personal experience with, and in the process saying those who HAVE used it are all wrong.

You don't see why maybe people would get a little upset?

If you disagreed, ok thats cool, but maybe you should have reserved your opinion (and reasons for it) until after you went and looked for yourself.  Why?  Because I, among others, think you are going to feel stupid once you go in and realize that the putter does, in fact, turn in.  You made a big mess of this thread all for nothing.

Thank you!! Took the words out of my mouth!

 Just the fact that many of use have held this putter in hands and it does the same for everyone (turns in), but I guess indacup knows just from his knowledge that no putter does this. Soon will he realize that this putter and many other do all what we have tried to describe to him, and he will finally feel like a fool. Next time go to the store and see what we are talking about indacup before you open your mouth and deny everything we say, might make you look not so dumb..

[tommyk90]

Thank you!! Took the words out of my mouth!

 Just the fact that many of use have held this putter in hands and it does the same for everyone (turns in), but I guess indacup knows just from his knowledge that no putter does this. Soon will he realize that this putter and many other do all what we have tried to describe to him, and he will finally feel like a fool. Next time go to the store and see what we are talking about indacup before you open your mouth and deny everything we say, might make you look not so dumb..

Honestly, I think even after he does realize that the putter turns in as I depicted, in order to save some face he'll try to manipulate the results to make it seem like he was correct the entire time.

Please indacup, don't insult us with such foolishness.  We'll forgive you after you apologize.

Next time maybe a more subtle approach as to why you disagree may go over a little better.  You know, something like "well, from my experiences no company would do something like this, and the pictures aren't the greatest, but since many people on here have experienced the same thing, maybe I should go look for myself", instead of "no company would make a mistake like this, the pictures are terrible, and everyone who thinks it turns that much are wrong".

[rockford35]

No wonder you're such good friends with Rockford.  

Don't knock me. I don't care whether the Method is closed or not. I won't be buying a Nike club anytime soon.

Or Snake Eyes hybrid irons. 

Lovin' tackle,

R35

[Braithwaite]

Honestly, I think even after he does realize that the putter turns in as I depicted, in order to save some face he'll try to manipulate the results to make it seem like he was correct the entire time.

Please indacup, don't insult us with such foolishness.  We'll forgive you after you apologize.

Next time maybe a more subtle approach as to why you disagree may go over a little better.  You know, something like "well, from my experiences no company would do something like this, and the pictures aren't the greatest, but since many people on here have experienced the same thing, maybe I should go look for myself", instead of "no company would make a mistake like this, the pictures are terrible, and everyone who thinks it turns that much are wrong".

I hope he doesn't do that! It would just look terrible on his part.. But if he wants to do so he can, we all know its true and what you see is what you get.

 

[mr_divots]

I can think of a ton of high MOI putters which flail open immediately if rested on the ground. If you have your mitts on the grip, it's square of course.

Only thing I can think to ask on this topic: do a lot of people balance their putter behind the ball like this during your pre-putt routine? 
Is this even something that is really applicable out on the course? I don't see it as being applicable, as you'd have to worry about ANY putter moving and hitting the ball if you balanced it by one fingertip at setup. But, this has been a funny topic to read anyway. 

[tommyk90]

I can think of a ton of high MOI putters which flail open immediately if rested on the ground. If you have your mitts on the grip, it's square of course.

Only thing I can think to ask on this topic: do a lot of people balance their putter behind the ball like this during your pre-putt routine? 
Is this even something that is really applicable out on the course? I don't see it as being applicable, as you'd have to worry about ANY putter moving and hitting the ball if you balanced it by one fingertip at setup. But, this has been a funny topic to read anyway. 

Obviously I would never let the putter sit like that during my pre-putt routine, but that's not really the argument here (at least it isn't for me).

Tons of putters rock closed, that much we know.  But indacup strolls in here and makes it seem like such a thing is impossible, which we (well, everyone besides him apparently) all know better.

Though I will say that I do like to set my putter up on the green with a light hold on it, then set my grip.  It would be fairly annoying to have the putter rest like that, then I have to turn it square.  The same thing goes for my driver as well, which is why I'm still gaming my FT-i.

[Braithwaite]

I think many people do set their putter down behind the ball with a very light grip and I know for one I do as well and if a putter does shut like the Method does it would hit the ball.

It does not happen just when you balance it with a fingertip but it happens with a very light grip, think about if your setting up to a driver you set it on the ground to get your hands in the right position, same goes for putter...

[Indacup]

I just got back from seeing the Method putter model 003 and I can honestly say........






























That is one fvcked up putter!

My buddy handed it to me and at first look at the head and it looked fine....There was no bounce on the sole...With the naked eye, it appears to be a simply 90* from the face...looked like I was right.

Grounded it, allowing the grip to rest in my open hand....and sure nuff, toe turned in!

I mean those pictures, if anything were right on the money.

I grabbed the new Scotty Cameron California which is basically the same shape and it sat just fine...nice and straight.

The big difference between the Scotty and the nike was the curvature of the base/sole....the Scotty sets up relatively flat and stable, where as the Nike, for lack of better words, is almost banana shaped...not to that extreme of course...but say if the Scotty had a curved base from head to toe of 2*, the Nike was like 7*...just felt unstable.

When the hands are dropped into normal putting position (for me) the toe just drops inward (as the pictures showed)...then, if you make a steeper swing plane, the head opens up to the point where you can all but eliminate the closed face if the shaft was shorter or you gripped down...But who putts like that?

It seems to me one of the original Oddysseys had a similar shape...and the curvature shape is common with belly putters...but then again, those are designed to putt at a steeper angle.

So you guys were right...I was wrong!

As I said before, I have been wrong before and know I will be wrong in the future...but I HAD to see for myself!