swingweight v. playability

[Boomchoo]

Hello,

I am in the process of having my irons re-shafted as they were to stiff and 1/2" too short for me.  The clubbuilder left me a message yesterday saying he needed to use a different grip than the one I picked to get a lower swingweight.  His message said that the grip was too light and would put the swing weight at about D5 and I should use a heavier grip to get the swing weight to about D2.  My problem is the grips he's suggesting I don't really care for.  When his shop opens today I plan on asking him these questions, but would like some feed back here before I talk to him so I know what I'm talking about.

Isn't swingweight just a measure of the balance point in relation to the clubhead and shaft?
Wouldn't a lighter grip lighten the overall club weight and aid in getting a faster swingspeed, creating a "bottom heavy" feel?
Is there a noticeable difference in the two swingweights that would affect the playability of the club?

Any info is appreciated.  Also if there are any other questions I should ask of him, please suggest them.

Thanks
Mike

[Pleasedwith3putts]

Go swing a broom holding the handle. Now turn it around and see how much quicker you can swing it holding the head. It's all to do with weight distribution and the further the weight is away from the hands then the more force is required to move the object

Static weight is a bit of a factor, but distribution is more important. Some clubmakers insist that an overlength club needs to have a higher swingweight to retain dynamic balance, others disagree. Unless you are a very accomplished player, 3 swingweights is unlikely to have as big an impact as playing with a grip you dont like. Or just tell him to put some lead tape under the grip

[Boomchoo]

That makes sense, Thank you.

[bl8d]

yes you will notice a 3 point difference in swingweight.  A bottom heavy club will not make you swing faster, as you seem to think. He's being honest with you ,not trying to screw some extra coin out of your pocket.

[Boomchoo]

yes you will notice a 3 point difference in swingweight.  A bottom heavy club will not make you swing faster, as you seem to think. He's being honest with you ,not trying to screw some extra coin out of your pocket.

Wow...I never stated or even hinted that I thought I was being screwed.  Actually the grips he has suggested are a few bucks cheaper than the one I picked, so its not even really an issue.  I just don't like the feel or tac (spelling?) of the ones he's suggested.  I also don't seem to think anything, these are legitimate questions I have and hoped to have answered.  I'm new to this aspect of golf(fitting) and would like to be able ask questions intelligently when his shop opens.

[matt mohi]

Hello,

I am in the process of having my irons re-shafted as they were to stiff and 1/2" too short for me.  The clubbuilder left me a message yesterday saying he needed to use a different grip than the one I picked to get a lower swingweight.  His message said that the grip was too light and would put the swing weight at about D5 and I should use a heavier grip to get the swing weight to about D2.  My problem is the grips he's suggesting I don't really care for.  When his shop opens today I plan on asking him these questions, but would like some feed back here before I talk to him so I know what I'm talking about.

Isn't swingweight just a measure of the balance point in relation to the clubhead and shaft?
Wouldn't a lighter grip lighten the overall club weight and aid in getting a faster swingspeed, creating a "bottom heavy" feel?
Is there a noticeable difference in the two swingweights that would affect the playability of the club?

Any info is appreciated.  Also if there are any other questions I should ask of him, please suggest them.

Thanks
Mike

Going with a lighter or heavier grip will have very little effect if any on the speed at which you swing the club.  The reason is that the weight is so close to the axis of rotation that it has very little effect.  If you were to take the 10 gram or so difference in the weight of the grips and apply that to the head, then you would see a difference in how you swing the golf club.

Swingweight is not the best way to measure how much force it will take to swing a golf club.  The MOI of the golf club is a much more applicable measurement and the MOI won't change significantly  with changing the grip weight for the above reason.

The grip you use should be chosen for the correct size and for the tactile sensation that you like.  To pick a grips weight to simply achieve a swingweight number, demonstrates exactly how arbitrary swingweight is.  If it was that important you wouldn't be "tricking" the scale by using a lighter or heavier weight. 

I don't think the clubmaker is trying to get you to spend more money, he's simply caught up in the long tradition that swingweight is the end all be all for the weighting of a golf club, but from a scientific point of view, it isn't a good measure of how the club will actually perform for you.

Get the grip on it that you like and don't worry if the swingweight scale reads D2 or D5, because in reality the difference of how you swing that club will be negligible.

[mr_divots]

My irons (also +1/2") come in around D6.5-D7. I like the slightly heavier feel, and it didn't take much adjustment, if any.
Only "problem" I could see running into is if the rest of your clubs are all D2, they might then feel a little light in comparison to your irons. 

[Boomchoo]

Mr. Divots and Matt, thank you for your input.  I went into his shop this afternoon and hit balls with a variety of clubs that had different grips until we found one that I liked and had the weight he was looking for to achieve the D2 swingweight.

[Sillybodkins]

Glad you got it sorted out.

I was going to suggest using the grips that you wanted and trying the clubs at D5.  If they seemed too heavy, you could easily remove a little weight from the heads by grinding them - maybe just a touch off the soles and a touch off the backs.  Old fashioned customization.

[Boomchoo]

Glad you got it sorted out.

I was going to suggest using the grips that you wanted and trying the clubs at D5.  If they seemed too heavy, you could easily remove a little weight from the heads by grinding them - maybe just a touch off the soles and a touch off the backs.  Old fashioned customization.

Thanks for the reply.  I'm curious, would grinding the grips as you described give them a rougher feel and enhance the tackiness?

[Cwebb]

Instead of going by what 'feels' best.  I'd get more detailed and see what weight and balance actually performs better, by testing with impact stickers on the face.  Sometimes a small change in head weight and/or weight around the grip, can make a significant difference in improving your center contact......as well as your ability to square the face consistently.

[Boomchoo]

I think we did just that when I went back to test other grips.  The feel aspect of the grip is important to me for a few reasons. First, I sweat alot and need a grip that's tacky.  Second, for some reason it often rains when I get to play, so again the tac is important.  And lastly, after several broken fingers and a dislocated thumb I sometimes experience soreness in my hands when I play so I wanted a grip that was also soft.  After hitting demo clubs with several types of grips, we found something that satisfied my desire for soft and tacky and his recommendation on weight.  This swingweight was discussed and demo clubs of that swingweight were tried during the fitting session.

When the clubfitter first called me to say the grip I had chosen wouldn't get the club to a swingweight he thought worked best for me, his suggestions were mostly plain rubber grips.  His shop didn't open for a few hours and I was mostly looking for answers to questions that popped into my head as my mind was racing having to wait for a few hours before I could talk w/ my clubfitter.

[Hubertus]

Feel is so important and individual. For example, I like my irons at D4 but my playing partner hates them that heavy. Grips do make a big difference in the feel department. Trial and error!

[Boomchoo]

I have my clubs back and so far have only hit them into a net.  The impact stickers I put on the face showed my contact was in the middle far more frequently than before...now if spring would get here.

[Kopitar]

I don't think a couple pts. matters much. I cut down my PI5's and they're now around D0 but I prefer them over my old Cobra's at D2 because the Wilson's overall weight is heavier....

[LyleG]

I can almost feel Frank cringing reading this thread

[Boomchoo]

Why wouldFrank cringe?