3ballsgolf Shill Bidding on Feebay eBay

[jeffkar]

The evidence was pretty damning but They had a set of irons I wanted so i thought I would give them a shot.  With 1 second left i got outbid by a bidder with 100% bidding activity with 3balls, over 640 items purchased and somehow 43000 positive feedback.  It is so blatant and annoting that ebay does nothing about this.

What would be the benefit of a shill outbidding a paying customer at the final minute?  I would imagine even if they're selling an item for less than they hoped, they'd still turn a profit.

[mosesgolf]

F' 3Balls.  I've bought alot of stuff from them over the years.  Hit em where it hurts and that's in the pocket book.  Never bidding on any of their stuff again. 

[bcheeks]

What would be the benefit of a shill outbidding a paying customer at the final minute?  I would imagine even if they're selling an item for less than they hoped, they'd still turn a profit.

If the shill wins they can 2nd chance offer it to the next highest bidder and they get as much as possible out of the item. For as much extra money as they make I doubt they care about the items they end up relisting.

[mosesgolf]

Here is their reply regarding this

http://www.3balls.com/DougSmith_eBay.html

3balls has never and will never engage in shill bidding. Hopefully the fact that 3balls has over 260,000 unique positive feedbacks and a 99.8% positive feedback rating on eBay (one of the highest ratings on the entire eBay platform for sellers with the volume of feedback we have), are members the eBay Community Hall of Fame (2007 http://pages.ebay.com/community/people/halloffame.html), and are an Internet Retailer Top 500 website (http://www.internetretailer.com/top500/list.asp), would be enough evidence that we would never engage in this type of activity, however, if that isn't enough proof, anyone with any questions may contact me personally at dsmith@3balls.com.

To briefly address a couple of the concerns noted in this thread:

1. 3balls is a leading & trusted internet retailer of used and like new golf equipment, and as such, we provide a huge selection of brand name golf clubs on eBay at great values. On any given day, we generally have 1,500 to 2,000+ auctions live on eBay. Most of our auctions are posted in the $.99 first bid/no reserve format, and as a result, they receive a great deal of bidding activity. There are many golf equipment resellers both domestically and internationally that bid and buy auctions from 3balls. Many of these resellers bid & buy from 3balls in large volumes and it seems some buy exclusively from us as a result of the great product, values, and service we provide. If some buyers choose to bid exclusively on 3balls' auctions, that is obviously their business and is only evidence these buyers enjoy doing business with 3balls.

2. In regards to comments about "private" feedback or blocked user ids. This is simply a policy of eBay's to protect its members - 3balls has no control over it. Only the buyer and seller of an auction can view each other's user IDs - other buyers cannot view other buyers user IDs. Here is wording copied directly from eBay's site regarding this policy: To help keep the eBay community safe, enhance bidder privacy, and protect our members from fraudulent emails, eBay has changed how User IDs display on the bid history page. Only you and the seller of the item can view your User ID, all other members will see anonymous user IDs, such as x***y.

As one of the principals of 3balls, I assure you 3balls is an honest company run by honest people of the highest integrity. (Here is our "Cast of Characters": http://www.3balls.com/file_include-file/castofcharacters/) We here at 3balls are all golfers who love the game and want to make it more fun & accessible for golfers by providing name brand equipment at great values to them (while having some fun while we do it). Our modest goal is to deliver the highest value to our customers through the products, values, and service we provide. This said, don't take my word for it, please see what our customers say about us:

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...tab=AllFeedback

http://www.shopzilla.com/ratings_guide/cus...mid--85041.html

Sincerely,
Doug Smith

[Jaylasvegas]

I guess the evidence showing that they shill isnt enough?  looks like a member of the 3balls team just signed up to this site so lets see what they have to say

[DaveT319]

I like how they didn't even really address the apparent shill bidding, other than to say "no we don't". Instead they trot out their good points and achievements, as if that somehow proves that they don't shill bid.

Dave

[rockford35]

I like how they didn't even really address the apparent shill bidding, other than to say "no we don't". Instead they trot out their good points and achievements, as if that somehow proves that they don't shill bid.

Dave

Agreed. They can blow smoke up your a$$ all they want, but as far as I'm concerned, they've lost my past and potential business. Period.

R35

[Jaylasvegas]

I set this topic as a sticky 

[DaveT319]

I'm pretty sure that 3balls has only joined here to keep tabs on this thread, and likely won't post an official rebuttal to anything that has been said. Would be nice if they did though.

Dave

[rockford35]

I'm pretty sure that 3balls has only joined here to keep tabs on this thread, and likely won't post an official rebuttal to anything that has been said. Would be nice if they did though.

Dave

They'll have someone post on their behalf.

R35

[Jaylasvegas]

the only icon that 3balls would consider using would be the famous


IBTL

[br61]

Here is their reply regarding this

http://www.3balls.com/DougSmith_eBay.html

3balls has never and will never engage in shill bidding. Hopefully the fact that 3balls has over 260,000 unique positive feedbacks and a 99.8% positive feedback rating on eBay (one of the highest ratings on the entire eBay platform for sellers with the volume of feedback we have), are members the eBay Community Hall of Fame (2007 http://pages.ebay.com/community/people/halloffame.html), and are an Internet Retailer Top 500 website (http://www.internetretailer.com/top500/list.asp), would be enough evidence that we would never engage in this type of activity, however, if that isn't enough proof, anyone with any questions may contact me personally at dsmith@3balls.com.

To briefly address a couple of the concerns noted in this thread:

1. 3balls is a leading & trusted internet retailer of used and like new golf equipment, and as such, we provide a huge selection of brand name golf clubs on eBay at great values. On any given day, we generally have 1,500 to 2,000+ auctions live on eBay. Most of our auctions are posted in the $.99 first bid/no reserve format, and as a result, they receive a great deal of bidding activity. There are many golf equipment resellers both domestically and internationally that bid and buy auctions from 3balls. Many of these resellers bid & buy from 3balls in large volumes and it seems some buy exclusively from us as a result of the great product, values, and service we provide. If some buyers choose to bid exclusively on 3balls' auctions, that is obviously their business and is only evidence these buyers enjoy doing business with 3balls.

2. In regards to comments about "private" feedback or blocked user ids. This is simply a policy of eBay's to protect its members - 3balls has no control over it. Only the buyer and seller of an auction can view each other's user IDs - other buyers cannot view other buyers user IDs. Here is wording copied directly from eBay's site regarding this policy: To help keep the eBay community safe, enhance bidder privacy, and protect our members from fraudulent emails, eBay has changed how User IDs display on the bid history page. Only you and the seller of the item can view your User ID, all other members will see anonymous user IDs, such as x***y.

As one of the principals of 3balls, I assure you 3balls is an honest company run by honest people of the highest integrity. (Here is our "Cast of Characters": http://www.3balls.com/file_include-file/castofcharacters/) We here at 3balls are all golfers who love the game and want to make it more fun & accessible for golfers by providing name brand equipment at great values to them (while having some fun while we do it). Our modest goal is to deliver the highest value to our customers through the products, values, and service we provide. This said, don't take my word for it, please see what our customers say about us:

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...tab=AllFeedback

http://www.shopzilla.com/ratings_guide/cus...mid--85041.html

Sincerely,
Doug Smith

Nice seeing you here, Duke!  

Yes, Doug did sign up this morning and I approved his membership. I did buy lot of items from them in the past and in recent past. However, I feel it's Ebay that shot themselves in the foot by implementing the hidden bidder's identity that made it tough for anyone to spot shill bidding.

The way I see this, only way that 3Balls can prove themselves as an innocent party, is if they can somehow convinced Ebay to do away with hidden bidder's identity policy as it used to be in the past. This might be the only way that they can prove that shill bidding isn't happening because no one will believe anyone's claims unless Ebay do away with their hidden bidder identity policy. Otherwise, it would be impossible for ANY big retailers to clear their own name this way.

[jimbonecrusher]

Screw 3balls golf.  I have tried to purchase from them, but was shill bid out of contention.  It was by......yep you guessed it.  By somebody with 100% bidding history with 3balls golf.  They have this touchy feely article about them a few years ago in Golf Week or Golf World.  Until some more convincing evidence proving that they haven't shill bid in the past, they will always be considered a shill bidding company that supports this policy.  That is also a reason why I don't even visit their website, because they are just doing it to jack up the prices.

[3ballsgolf]

3balls has never and will never engage in shill bidding. Hopefully the fact that 3balls has over 260,000 unique positive feedbacks and a 99.8% positive feedback rating on eBay (one of the highest ratings on the entire eBay platform for sellers with the volume of feedback we have), are members the eBay Community Hall of Fame (2007 http://pages.ebay.com/community/people/halloffame.html), and are an Internet Retailer Top 500 website (http://www.internetretailer.com/top500/list.asp), would be enough evidence that we would never engage in this type of activity, however, if that isn't enough proof, anyone with any questions may contact me personally at dsmith@3balls.com.

To briefly address a couple of the concerns noted in this thread:

1. 3balls is a leading & trusted internet retailer of used and like new golf equipment, and as such, we provide a huge selection of brand name golf clubs on eBay at great values. On any given day, we generally have 1,500 to 2,000+ auctions live on eBay. Most of our auctions are posted in the $.99 first bid/no reserve format, and as a result, they receive a great deal of bidding activity. There are many golf equipment resellers both domestically and internationally that bid and buy auctions from 3balls. Many of these resellers bid & buy from 3balls in large volumes and it seems some buy exclusively from us as a result of the great product, values, and service we provide. If some buyers choose to bid exclusively on 3balls' auctions, that is obviously their business and is only evidence these buyers enjoy doing business with 3balls.

2. In regards to comments about "private" feedback or blocked user ids. This is simply a policy of eBay's to protect its members - 3balls has no control over it. Only the buyer and seller of an auction can view each other's user IDs - other buyers cannot view other buyers user IDs. Here is wording copied directly from eBay's site regarding this policy: To help keep the eBay community safe, enhance bidder privacy, and protect our members from fraudulent emails, eBay has changed how User IDs display on the bid history page. Only you and the seller of the item can view your User ID, all other members will see anonymous user IDs, such as x***y.

As one of the principals of 3balls, I assure you 3balls is an honest company run by honest people of the highest integrity. (Here is our "Cast of Characters": http://www.3balls.com/file_include-file/castofcharacters/) We here at 3balls are all golfers who love the game and want to make it more fun & accessible for golfers by providing name brand equipment at great values to them (while having some fun while we do it). Our modest goal is to deliver the highest value to our customers through the products, values, and service we provide. This said, don't take my word for it, please see what our customers say about us:

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...tab=AllFeedback

http://www.shopzilla.com/ratings_guide/cus...mid--85041.html

Sincerely,
Doug Smith
VP, Marketing & Business Development, 3balls.com

[LBlack14]

3balls has never and will never engage in shill bidding. Hopefully the fact that 3balls has over 260,000 unique positive feedbacks and a 99.8% positive feedback rating on eBay (one of the highest ratings on the entire eBay platform for sellers with the volume of feedback we have), are members the eBay Community Hall of Fame (2007 http://pages.ebay.com/community/people/halloffame.html), and are an Internet Retailer Top 500 website (http://www.internetretailer.com/top500/list.asp), would be enough evidence that we would never engage in this type of activity, however, if that isn't enough proof, anyone with any questions may contact me personally at dsmith@3balls.com.

To briefly address a couple of the concerns noted in this thread:

1. 3balls is a leading & trusted internet retailer of used and like new golf equipment, and as such, we provide a huge selection of brand name golf clubs on eBay at great values. On any given day, we generally have 1,500 to 2,000+ auctions live on eBay. Most of our auctions are posted in the $.99 first bid/no reserve format, and as a result, they receive a great deal of bidding activity. There are many golf equipment resellers both domestically and internationally that bid and buy auctions from 3balls. Many of these resellers bid & buy from 3balls in large volumes and it seems some buy exclusively from us as a result of the great product, values, and service we provide. If some buyers choose to bid exclusively on 3balls' auctions, that is obviously their business and is only evidence these buyers enjoy doing business with 3balls.

2. In regards to comments about "private" feedback or blocked user ids. This is simply a policy of eBay's to protect its members - 3balls has no control over it. Only the buyer and seller of an auction can view each other's user IDs - other buyers cannot view other buyers user IDs. Here is wording copied directly from eBay's site regarding this policy: To help keep the eBay community safe, enhance bidder privacy, and protect our members from fraudulent emails, eBay has changed how User IDs display on the bid history page. Only you and the seller of the item can view your User ID, all other members will see anonymous user IDs, such as x***y.

As one of the principals of 3balls, I assure you 3balls is an honest company run by honest people of the highest integrity. (Here is our "Cast of Characters": http://www.3balls.com/file_include-file/castofcharacters/) We here at 3balls are all golfers who love the game and want to make it more fun & accessible for golfers by providing name brand equipment at great values to them (while having some fun while we do it). Our modest goal is to deliver the highest value to our customers through the products, values, and service we provide. This said, don't take my word for it, please see what our customers say about us:

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...tab=AllFeedback

http://www.shopzilla.com/ratings_guide/cus...mid--85041.html

Sincerely,
Doug Smith
VP, Marketing & Business Development, 3balls.com

Surely you can do better than this!!!  The evidence is overwhelming.

[Jaylasvegas]

sorry Doug, but thats word for word the same thing you wrote to one of our members
it doesnt seem to be genuine when you copy and paste the same story

can you explain all of the bidders with zero-50 feedback that have bid over 800 times and solely on your products? that doesnt add up, these are bidders that outbid the last person and they dont even get feedback from the previous transactions, clearly a company that is so proud of there feedback, would leave feedback to these winners

[LBlack14]

You'd think he would've read some of this thread before he just copied and pasted a repeat.

[daughterscameron]

You'd think he would've read some of this thread before he just copied and pasted a repeat.

Word for word!! .  Kind of like signing your name with a handstamp.

[rockford35]

You'd think he would've read some of this thread before he just copied and pasted a repeat.

No time! Gotta shill!

R35

[jimbonecrusher]

  This is what the excuse is like.

excuse you gave us Doug.  Be a little bit more genuine and actually answer questions instead of tap dance around them.

I call SHENANIGANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is what I am doing with that excuse, as well as informing all of my golfing friends of 3balls shill bidding tactics.

[ND fan]

Why all the hate?

If you're shill bid against and lose well don't do business with them.  But I would think Ebay would go out of their way to investigate this stuff.  Their entire business relies on the integrity of their system.  if their system fails miserably so will they.

I made an error on a listing a couple years ago and I thought a set of clubs would certainly sell for at least $150.  Well with minutes left I couldn't change the listing so i had my wife bid it to $150.  I got a warning letter the next day.  I learned my lesson.  But I made a mistake and the clubs were going to sell for $5.  I guess I could have pulled the auctions but I thought I could just get out of it by having my wife win so i was just out the listing fee.  bad move on my part but at the time i couldn't afford the mistake I had made.

3 balls has some pretty good deals and I have bought a few things there and never had any thoughts that I was being shilled against.

[DaveT319]

I agree, that was really weak to just copy-and-paste the same form letter stuff from the previous post. That actually makes me trust them LESS.

And JLV has an excellent point: How could people who have made 800+ bids ONLY WITH 3BALLS have less than 50 feedbacks? Say they are the winner only a quarter or an eighth of the time. That should still be AT LEAST 100 feedbacks. The math just doesn't add up.

I'm really disappointed. I was hoping they'd do more to disprove what we are accusing them of here.

Dave

[rockford35]

I'm really disappointed. I was hoping they'd do more to disprove what we are accusing them of here.

Dave

My guess is that they can't. Otherwise, why wouldn't they defend their position when given every opportunity?

Even if they came and could defend it with some jargin and quick phrases, no hope they're going to win me back. Way too shady in the past to even conceive it.

R35

[Jaylasvegas]

Why all the hate?

Its not hate, its called looking out for our members, this is a game of integrity, clearly they dont have any.
Its not difficult to see that, some may let shady business practices slide, but when you have a message board to spread the word, why wouldnt you

[daughterscameron]

Its not hate, its called looking out for our members, this is a game of integrity, clearly they dont have any.
Its not difficult to see that, some may let shady business practices slide, but when you have a message board to spread the word, why wouldnt you

Here--Here!!!   Said perfect.  Thank You!!