1st time on a launch monitor

[limpwrist]

I have been having a heck of a time getting some kinks worked out of my driver lately, so I stopped into Dick's Sporting Goods to see what the launch monitor had to say about my shaft because I thought I might have made a poor choice (really just a guess).  The driver is a TM r7 425 9.5* (non-TP model) with an Aldila VS Proto 65-X.  The club came with an NV 65-S, but I decided to change it because I couldn't get the ball high enough with enough carry.  I assumed it was due to the high kick in the NV and figured the mid-kick VS might help me get the ball up.  I went with the X-flex to try to get a little more accuracy as well.  I figured I would lose a little distance going from S-flex to X-flex, but I was willing to make that sacrifice if I could control it a little better.  I was beginning to think that decision backfired a little bit because I lost about 20 yards on my drives and really didn't gain any accuracy because I picked up a nasty tendency to hook the ball with the new shaft.

Anyway, I hit about 10 shots on the monitor and here are the average results as best I can remember:

• swing speed: 112mph
• launch angle: 13*
• spin: ~3400rpm
• carry: 248 yards
• ball speed: can't remember exactly, but I think it was about 145mph

The "pro" said that I should be getting more carry and less spin with the club/shaft combination at my swing speed, so he put some impact tape on the driver and had me hit some more balls.  Turns out, I am hitting the ball too high and too far inside on the face (missing the sweet spot completely) to really make the club work.  I bought some impact strips and spent about an hour on the range this evening and think I have it worked out now (teed the ball lower and backed away just a hair).  I am still having a little trouble with the hook, but I am hitting it on the center of the face more consistently.  I'm still thinking I should look into getting a more open-faced driver to combat that hook, but I think I'm going to try moving the weights around first.

Disregarding the mishit problem, do you guys agree that this is a good shaft for my swing speed (108-117mph)?  The "pro" said I was at the lower end of the spectrum for an X-flex shaft, but I should be alright with it.

Cheers,
Patrick

[Sickspin]

an X shaft should be fine for you, your ballspeed is the problem...just gotta hit it solid...at the moment I can't do it either so take no advice from me.

[Cwebb]

You can't really evaluate your launch and spin until you have your contact around the center.  Any contact toward the heel, will almost always produce high spin.  As well as low ballspeed.

You're doing the right thing with the impact labels.  Work on an impact pattern that is center to slight toe.  A little towards the toe is a much better mis than the heel.  More ballspeed and less spin.

Once you get your contact dialed, get yourself back on the monitor and we can evaluate your numbers.

[NewJerichoMan]

Anyway, I hit about 10 shots on the monitor and here are the average results as best I can remember:

• swing speed: 112mph
• launch angle: 13*
• spin: ~3400rpm
• carry: 248 yards
• ball speed: can't remember exactly, but I think it was about 145mph

The "pro" said that I should be getting more carry and less spin with the club/shaft combination at my swing speed, so he put some impact tape on the driver and had me hit some more balls.  Turns out, I am hitting the ball too high and too far inside on the face (missing the sweet spot completely) to really make the club work.

Disregarding the mishit problem, do you guys agree that this is a good shaft for my swing speed (108-117mph)?  The "pro" said I was at the lower end of the spectrum for an X-flex shaft, but I should be alright with it.

Cheers,
Patrick

Is there any shop around that can do a reputable fitting?  

Based on your ball speed and carry numbers, your swing speed is likely in the 100 mph range, which is more indicative of a regular flex / stiff flex range - depending on your tempo.  Oftentimes, the swing speed is actually measured but backwards calculated based on the ball speed.  

Since you went to the range and ironed out your swing by moving the ball back a bit, you likely lowered your LA / spin a scosh.  As it was, you were probably ~500 rpms too high in spin.  1* lower launch and resulting decrease in spin would likely put you in a more optimal range.  

Later,
David  

[limpwrist]

Is there any shop around that can do a reputable fitting?

I'm not sure.  I stopped by to talk to RP about all of this, but he wasn't in at the time.  I'm not sure if he has a launch monitor to do fittings, but I know that nobody else in this podunk town has one.  The Dick's I stopped in was about 45 miles away (was visiting the Dentist there).  Martin's PGA Superstore in Myrtle Beach is about 90 minutes away, so I could always go down there if I absolutely had no other choice.

Based on your ball speed and carry numbers, your swing speed is likely in the 100 mph range

I was under the impression that my ball speed and carry numbers were off due to hitting the heel and too high on the face of the club.  The launch monitor measured my swing speed average at 112mph (varied from 108 to 117 on about 10-12 swings).  Is there some reason I should think that the swing speed it gave me was inaccurate?

My launch angle on the monitor varied from 11 to 16* (~13* average).  After I started teeing the ball lower on the range, it did seem like the launch angle was much better on average (I would guess more consistently in the 11* range based on my uncalibrated eye) and carry was very good (consistently well past the 250yd marker on the range).

Thanks for the input all,
Patrick

[NewJerichoMan]

112 ss / 145 bs = 1.30 smash factor.  That's too low. 

A very good smash factor is 1.5.  100 mph swing speed = 150 mph ball speed.
A very bad smash factor is 1.4.  145 bs / 1.4 = 103 mph.

Generally, you get 2.5 yards of carry per mph of SS.
100 mph SS = 250 yards of carry.

Later,
David

[limpwrist]

Roger that, but don't you think me mishitting the ball is what is lowering my ball speed and carry?

[NewJerichoMan]

Roger that, but don't you think me mishitting the ball is what is lowering my ball speed and carry?

Yes, that's why you need to go to a top-notch guy.  You'll get much better data and you'll get it interpreted correctly.  Leaves no room for internet guessing. 

If you're close to RP then that's your answer.

Later,
David

[Hungsolo]

Roger that, but don't you think me mishitting the ball is what is lowering my ball speed and carry?

Absolutely it is.  However, the shaft question is absolutely a moot point until you know what your numbers are on center hits.  Hitting the ball in the center of the face could drop your spin 600-800 rpm right there, and raise your ballspeed by 15mph.

Have you tried choking down on the shaft by about 1 inch?  The other thing would be to feel like you are swinging at 75% until you get the center contact thing worked out.  After all, ballspeed is king.  If you are only getting 145mph of ballspeed, you might as well be swinging 97mph and hitting the center of the face and the center of the fairway, instead of swinging 112mph and hitting the heel of the driver and watching the ball saunter off to god knows where.

Just my opinion.

[limpwrist]

Yes, that's why you need to go to a top-notch guy.  You'll get much better data and you'll get it interpreted correctly.  Leaves no room for internet guessing.

Right, but a good fitter isn't going to be able to tell me anything until I can cure the mishits because the numbers aren't going to be an accurate measure of what the club/shaft combination are capable of in my hands if I'm hitting it off the heel, correct?  At least that is my theory.  I was mainly just looking for confirmation of the "pro's" assessment that my average swing speed was okay for an X-flex shaft.

[limpwrist]

Have you tried choking down on the shaft by about 1 inch?

Actually, I was contemplating adding an inch extension to the shaft.    I am 6'4" and have extensions in all my other clubs, so I figured it might be a good idea to give that a try, but I'm going to wait until I can get to hitting it solid first before I go messing around with anything else.

[Hungsolo]

just thinking that if your miss is to the heel, you may want a shorter stick.  Who knows?

[limpwrist]

Who knows?

Not me, that's for sure.  At this point, I'm willing to try about anything.  It is really frustrating because I hit every other club in my bag solid and the ball generally goes where I want, but I just can't get the driver figured out.  I only started hitting a driver about a year ago.  I can hit my 3-wood about 260-275 off a tee with roll, so I had always just played with that instead of learning to hit a driver.  Last year I made some pretty good improvements and dropped my handicap from the 18-20 range down to 10-12 range over the course of about four months, so I figured it was high time I learn to hit a driver.  I probably really need to get with a pro for some lessons, but I don't know that there are any really qualified teachers around here.

[Cwebb]

It sounds like your driver is too light, since you're hitting everything else OK.  A light club will promote heel contact, because the club will get out away from during your transition.  A heavier club can be easier to drop down into the slot.

You need to have the weight and MOI checked on that thing.

[Hungsolo]

It sounds like your driver is too light, since you're hitting everything else OK.  A light club will promote heel contact, because the club will get out away from during your transition.  A heavier club can be easier to drop down into the slot.

You need to have the weight and MOI checked on that thing.

Do you think he bombs his three wood because it's heavier?  or shorter?  or both?  I mean he's not Choeppner with a 45.75 inch 3 wood right? 

[Cwebb]

Probably both, with the main emphasis on it being shorter.

He needs a roll of lead tape to add weight in different spots and see what results.

[limpwrist]

It sounds like your driver is too light, since you're hitting everything else OK.

That was another thought that crossed my mind.  In addition to being 6'4", I am also 320lbs.     Other people have told me that my clubs (irons and 3-wood) "feel heavy" to them.  My driver is at D-3 or D-4 and it does feel a bit light to me.  I can feel the club head weight just enough to know where it's at, but it does seem a little harder to keep on plane than my other clubs.

[limpwrist]

Do you think he bombs his three wood because it's heavier?  or shorter?  or both?  I mean he's not Choeppner with a 45.75 inch 3 wood right?

My 3-wood is actually only a 1/4" shorter than my driver (3-wood: 44.5", driver: 44.75").  And just so there is no misunderstanding, I only carry my 3-wood about 240-250yds.  I get about 20 yards of roll with it depending on the fairway conditions.

[limpwrist]

PS - Thanks for the sanity check on all this floating around in my head, guys.  I really appreciate it.

Cheers,
Patrick

[Cwebb]

You're a candidate to try back weighting.  This is putting weight in the top of the shaft, under the grip.  It can instantly get the club tracking down from the top and as a result, move your contact farthur out on the face.  The bonus with this type of weighting, is that you usually won't lose clubhead speed.  Some players even pick up a tad.

Remember that just because you play your irons overlength, doesn't mean that you have to play your driver over length.  Today's stock length is already over length.  There's plenty of guys that benefit from a 44.5" driver length, but also require .5-1" over irons.

[Cwebb]

Do you think he bombs his three wood because it's heavier?  or shorter?  or both?  I mean he's not Choeppner with a 45.75 inch 3 wood right?

My 3-wood is actually only a 1/4" shorter than my driver (3-wood: 44.5", driver: 44.75").  And just so there is no misunderstanding, I only carry my 3-wood about 240-250yds.  I get about 20 yards of roll with it depending on the fairway conditions.

  That's the issue.  You've probaby got a driver that's around D0 and a 3 wood that's E0. 

Needless to say, a re-evaluation is in order

[limpwrist]

Remember that just because you play your irons overlength, doesn't mean that you have to play your driver over length.  Today's stock length is already over length. 

Yeah, that's why I didn't have it lengthened from the start or run right out and get it done once the problems started.

[Hungsolo]

get a roll of lead tape and put about 6-8 inches of it on your driver head.  See if that helps.   (I have about 7 inches on mine, and you can't see any of it at address!

[limpwrist]

You're a candidate to try back weighting.

I just thought of something.  Wouldn't that further reduce my swing weight?

[Cwebb]

You're a candidate to try back weighting.

I just thought of something.  Wouldn't that further reduce my swing weight?

Yes it would.......but when using backweighting, you disregard swing weight after the weight is added.

It essentially "tricks" the swing weight scale.  This is one of the reasons that an MOI machine is superior.  You can't trick it.  Back weighting increases MOI, slightly.

What shaft are you using in your irons and how long are they?