Ball fitting - Surprised by the different data found

[adamsgolfer]

                 Club speed  ball    launch     spin           cary        total       smash
                                         
HX Tour            101.7    142.4    14.7      2789       246.5      249.7     140.0
Srixon Zurc       101.0    140.6    14.9      2857       242.8      245.9     139.1
HX Hot              99.4     142.5    15.6      2887       250.4      253.8     143.3
Pro-V1              98.6     142.7    15.3      2914       249.7      253        144.7
Pro-V1x             98.1      140.4   14.7      2974       244.4      247.6    143.3
TM Black            98.7     141.3   15         3064        247.1      250.3   143.2
HX Tour 56         98.4     144.1   17.2       3165       257.3      261.0    146.5
Srixon Zurs         99.7     142.9   16.2       3194       253.3      256.7    143.3

Which ball to choose? 

HX Tour 56 in wet conditions?

HX Tour in Dry Firm Conditions?

And why are the softer balls getting a better smash factor?

Just figured it was interesting seeing how different balls work at my swingspeed.  The numbers shown, are the top 3 balls of each brand.

[OptimalFlight]

                 Club speed  ball    launch     spin           cary        total       smash
                                         
HX Tour            101.7    142.4    14.7      2789       246.5      249.7     140.0
Srixon Zurc       101.0    140.6    14.9      2857       242.8      245.9     139.1
HX Hot              99.4     142.5    15.6      2887       250.4      253.8     143.3
Pro-V1              98.6     142.7    15.3      2914       249.7      253        144.7
Pro-V1x             98.1      140.4   14.7      2974       244.4      247.6    143.3
TM Black            98.7     141.3   15         3064        247.1      250.3   143.2
HX Tour 56         98.4     144.1   17.2       3165       257.3      261.0    146.5
Srixon Zurs         99.7     142.9   16.2       3194       253.3      256.7    143.3

Which ball to choose? 

HX Tour 56 in wet conditions?

HX Tour in Dry Firm Conditions?

And why are the softer balls getting a better smash factor?

Just figured it was interesting seeing how different balls work at my swingspeed.  The numbers shown, are the average of 5 balls with each brand with the occasional (OOPS) thrown out.

Nice stuff! Would you have the actual data file for a closer review?
Send it to todd@qualitygolfstats.com

This can be translated nicely into two OptimalFlight reports.

Regards,
Todd

[adamsgolfer]

                 Club speed  ball    launch     spin           cary        total       smash
                                         
HX Tour            101.7    142.4    14.7      2789       246.5      249.7     140.0
Srixon Zurc       101.0    140.6    14.9      2857       242.8      245.9     139.1
HX Hot              99.4     142.5    15.6      2887       250.4      253.8     143.3
Pro-V1              98.6     142.7    15.3      2914       249.7      253        144.7
Pro-V1x             98.1      140.4   14.7      2974       244.4      247.6    143.3
TM Black            98.7     141.3   15         3064        247.1      250.3   143.2
HX Tour 56         98.4     144.1   17.2       3165       257.3      261.0    146.5
Srixon Zurs         99.7     142.9   16.2       3194       253.3      256.7    143.3

Which ball to choose? 

HX Tour 56 in wet conditions?

HX Tour in Dry Firm Conditions?

And why are the softer balls getting a better smash factor?

Just figured it was interesting seeing how different balls work at my swingspeed.  The numbers shown, are the average of 5 balls with each brand with the occasional (OOPS) thrown out.

Nice stuff! Would you have the actual data file for a closer review?
Send it to todd@qualitygolfstats.com

This can be translated nicely into two OptimalFlight reports.

Regards,
Todd

I have the printout they gave me, but when I went to scan it in onto my computer from my HP Officejet copier it's stating their is an error.  I have to find the scanner disk and reload it.

[adamsgolfer]

Just by changing the golfball I can play  the same club and get different  ball flight, just depending on the weather and course conditions.

Looks like the  HX Tour for the normal dry conditions.  And the HX Tour 56 for the wet conditions.  I was surprised that changing a ball, can raise my launch almost 3 degrees.

[OptimalFlight]

                 Club speed  ball    launch     spin           cary        total       smash
                                         
HX Tour            101.7    142.4    14.7      2789       246.5      249.7     140.0
Srixon Zurc       101.0    140.6    14.9      2857       242.8      245.9     139.1
HX Hot              99.4     142.5    15.6      2887       250.4      253.8     143.3
Pro-V1              98.6     142.7    15.3      2914       249.7      253        144.7
Pro-V1x             98.1      140.4   14.7      2974       244.4      247.6    143.3
TM Black            98.7     141.3   15         3064        247.1      250.3   143.2
HX Tour 56         98.4     144.1   17.2       3165       257.3      261.0    146.5
Srixon Zurs         99.7     142.9   16.2       3194       253.3      256.7    143.3

Which ball to choose? 

HX Tour 56 in wet conditions?

HX Tour in Dry Firm Conditions?

And why are the softer balls getting a better smash factor?

Just figured it was interesting seeing how different balls work at my swingspeed.  The numbers shown, are the average of 5 balls with each brand with the occasional (OOPS) thrown out.

Nice stuff! Would you have the actual data file for a closer review?
Send it to todd@qualitygolfstats.com

This can be translated nicely into two OptimalFlight reports.

Regards,
Todd

I have the printout they gave me, but when I went to scan it in onto my computer from my HP Officejet copier it's stating their is an error.  I have to find the scanner disk and reload it.

What if you faxed it to me from the officejet?  I can give you a fax # and it will come to me via an email.
Todd

[adamsgolfer]

sent the data via email.

I have someone entering the information in a OptimalFlight, just waiting.

[NewJerichoMan]

Just by changing the golfball I can play  the same club and get different  ball flight, just depending on the weather and course conditions.

Looks like the  HX Tour for the normal dry conditions.  And the HX Tour 56 for the wet conditions.  I was surprised that changing a ball, can raise my launch almost 3 degrees.

Todd will hit you with the OF numbers.  Those numbers feel "inflated" to me.  I'm gonna guess they numbers came off a Vector.  It tends to be "friendly" toward spin rather than more penalizing like it is in reality.  17.2* and 3,165 rpms of spin is not optimal.  Your data sheet has rollout yardages from 3.1 to 3.7 yards.  That's not reality.

I think you hit the HX 56 on the screws, or rather on the COG.  Highest ball speeds, highest smash factor, highest LA but with second highest spin.  Quick math: 3,165 / 17.2 LA = 184 rpms / * of LA.  That's a better rate of return than the HX Hot!, which we know doesn't spin.  If you went with a driver with 2* less loft, HX 56 may be the ball for you.  

If you're going to stay with your current driver then I'd guess the Pro V1 is the best ball for you.  3rd highest BS, LA 2* lower than HX 56 (15.3 vs 17.2) and 2,900ish spin.  Should garner a decent rollout.  HX Tour could be a winner as well since the LA was tied for lowest of the group.  Smash factor sucked on that ball.  Maybe that's a function of you and not the ball.  

I still think the Pro V1 and HX Tour are launching too high for your spin rates but they're close!  At the end of the day, not sure if I see anything "statistically significant" with any of these balls.  I think the lower launching the ball, the better performance you'll see on the course...but only slightly.

Later,
David

[adamsgolfer]

Todd will hit you with the OF numbers.  Those numbers feel "inflated" to me.  I'm gonna guess they numbers came off a Vector.  It tends to be "friendly" toward spin rather than more penalizing like it is in reality.  17.2* and 3,165 rpms of spin is not optimal.  Your data sheet has rollout yardages from 3.1 to 3.7 yards.  That's not reality.

I think you hit the HX 56 on the screws, or rather on the COG.  Highest ball speeds, highest smash factor, highest LA but with second highest spin.  Quick math: 3,165 / 17.2 LA = 184 rpms / * of LA.  That's a better rate of return than the HX Hot!, which we know doesn't spin.  If you went with a driver with 2* less loft, HX 56 may be the ball for you. 

If you're going to stay with your current driver then I'd guess the Pro V1 is the best ball for you.  3rd highest BS, LA 2* lower than HX 56 (15.3 vs 17.2) and 2,900ish spin.  Should garner a decent rollout.  HX Tour could be a winner as well since the LA was tied for lowest of the group.  Smash factor sucked on that ball.  Maybe that's a function of you and not the ball. 

I still think the Pro V1 and HX Tour are launching too high for your spin rates but they're close!  At the end of the day, not sure if I see anything "statistically significant" with any of these balls.  I think the lower launching the ball, the better performance you'll see on the course...but only slightly.

Later,
David

Thanks for your input.

I just received the driver and wanted to test it knowing the shaft was high launch medium high spin.  A shaft change might be in order.

I was actually on a Trackman for the testing.  The Smash Factor threw me off, on the lower numbers, because they felt like solid hits but they were a little out on the toe.

I was wandering about the low roll out also, even with the lower spin on some of the hits, only 3 yards didn't sound right.  One reason I wanted to post the information here and see what you guys thought.

The Driver was a FT-5 9.5* LCG with a Tp-6 shaft.

Since the shaft is high launch and medium spin,  I know there are a lot of options to choose from to get the launch and spin down.

[Cwebb]

The HX.56 does not launch 2.5* higher than the HX.tour.  So you must have had a more positive angle of attack and or been striking it higher on the face.

[adamsgolfer]

The HX.56 does not launch 2.5* higher than the HX.tour.  So you must have had a more positive angle of attack and or been striking it higher on the face.

Thanks,

What about shaft options, to lower the launch and lower the spin?  Any ideas based on the numbers given?

[NewJerichoMan]

Todd will hit you with the OF numbers.  Those numbers feel "inflated" to me.  I'm gonna guess they numbers came off a Vector.  It tends to be "friendly" toward spin rather than more penalizing like it is in reality.  17.2* and 3,165 rpms of spin is not optimal.  Your data sheet has rollout yardages from 3.1 to 3.7 yards.  That's not reality.

I think you hit the HX 56 on the screws, or rather on the COG.  Highest ball speeds, highest smash factor, highest LA but with second highest spin.  Quick math: 3,165 / 17.2 LA = 184 rpms / * of LA.  That's a better rate of return than the HX Hot!, which we know doesn't spin.  If you went with a driver with 2* less loft, HX 56 may be the ball for you. 

If you're going to stay with your current driver then I'd guess the Pro V1 is the best ball for you.  3rd highest BS, LA 2* lower than HX 56 (15.3 vs 17.2) and 2,900ish spin.  Should garner a decent rollout.  HX Tour could be a winner as well since the LA was tied for lowest of the group.  Smash factor sucked on that ball.  Maybe that's a function of you and not the ball. 

I still think the Pro V1 and HX Tour are launching too high for your spin rates but they're close!  At the end of the day, not sure if I see anything "statistically significant" with any of these balls.  I think the lower launching the ball, the better performance you'll see on the course...but only slightly.

Later,
David

Thanks for your input.

I just received the driver and wanted to test it knowing the shaft was high launch medium high spin.  A shaft change might be in order.

I was actually on a Trackman for the testing.  The Smash Factor threw me off, on the lower numbers, because they felt like solid hits but they were a little out on the toe.

I was wandering about the low roll out also, even with the lower spin on some of the hits, only 3 yards didn't sound right.  One reason I wanted to post the information here and see what you guys thought.

The Driver was a FT-5 9.5* LCG with a Tp-6 shaft.

Since the shaft is high launch and medium spin,  I know there are a lot of options to choose from to get the launch and spin down.

Todd will ultimately weigh in.  Sounds like some wind aideage on the distance.  What part of the country are you in?  Elevation?  Temp?

Later,
David

[OptimalFlight]

I'm looking at the #'s now.   

[NewJerichoMan]

The HX.56 does not launch 2.5* higher than the HX.tour.  So you must have had a more positive angle of attack and or been striking it higher on the face.

I think he hit the HX 56 on the screws: highest smash factor, highest ball speed, highest launch, and spin-to-LA ratio better than even the HX Hot.  

Later,
David

[NewJerichoMan]

I'm looking at the #'s now.   

Huurrrr - Reee  uPPP.   

[OptimalFlight]

Posting results shortly...

I was actually on a Trackman for the testing.  The Smash Factor threw me off, on the lower numbers, because they felt like solid hits but they were a little out on the toe.

Roll out #'s seem strange but I wouldn't worry too much about it.

There are two types of Trackmans - the $15-20K Launch unit where certain parameters are estimated and the high end unit.

The important piece of TrackMan information that is valuable is the landing angle and the Apex.  OptimalFlight can help pinpoint what kind of 'environment' is being applied (wind, altitude or a combination of the two, or perhaps something else?!)

I'm going to post 4 reports.  You can download them and take a closer look.

Regards,
Todd

[OptimalFlight]

Attached are 4 reports sorted in ball speed order from highest to lowest.

As David mentioned earlier, there's some aidage going on (wind, elevation?).  A trackman's landing angle and apex information will help make it more clear what's going on.



We can see right away from OptimalFlight's data validation check that all carry #'s are a bit longer than expected.  This result also occurs for the 2nd set of numbers.

All shots being launched in the 14-17 degree realm seems to be a bit high with the amount of spin being generated.  My attention focuses on which ball lands in the 36-40* landing angle area to maximize run out.   This starts favoring the results for the HX Tour (having the lowest spin of the bunch and on 2nd page, with a 37.7 landing angle.)



Regards,
Todd

FYI:   Altitude setting at 4000 ft has all the numbers more reasonable and spot on.

[NewJerichoMan]

Noice stuff Todd.  Moojo for you.



Looking at the numbers again, throw out the 3 lowest ball speeds right out of the box: ZurC, ProV1x, TM Black.  Leave 5 balls. 

The HX Tour has decent numbers (especially in the spin department) but like the other "harder" balls, a below average smash factor and ball speeds.  HX Hot has very good overall numbers but it's the HX Hot.  No greenside spin.  He gone.  ZurS is interesting but spins too much. 

That leaves the HX Tour 56 and the ProV1.  The HX Tour 56 is the least spinny ball based upon LA ratio but I think that's because you hit a couple shots right on the screws.  That's why it has the highest ball speeds and smash factor.  He gone.

That leaves just the ProV1 with the third best ball speed, 2nd best smash factor coupled with below average LA and spin. 

Think that's splitting hairs and you need to change the shaft in your driver but that's what I see.   

Later,
David

[adamsgolfer]

Think that's splitting hairs and you need to change the shaft in your driver but that's what I see.   

Later,
David.

How much more would a shaft change help?

I know for the cold wet conditions in Oregon, this club played really well yesterday. 

Anyone play 1 driver during the colder wetter season, and a different driver during the summer dryer months?

[XtremeCruiser]

Great post !

[OptimalFlight]

I got your fax.  The launch monitor numbers are from a Zelocity system (also radar based).


Therefore, the carry results from OptimalFlight are to be trusted. 

There may be some scaling adjustment factors taking place which is causing the system to produce longer than expected results.  I'd try to learn more about what the current settings are.  A number of Zelocity fitters have OptimalFlight on hand to complement their fittings.

Not sure what is up with the roll #'s. 

Typically the most similar 2-4 shots will be used in the summary average.   There are some shots that could benefit from exclusion.  One example is in the erHX Tour 56 with one shot having a 20* launch angle and 3713 spin. 

The cold & wet conditions will favor a driver with an all carry strategy.  Drier and warmer conditions will favor a mid launch, just the right amount of spin driver or a low launcher to take advantage of generous roll out on a hard fairway.

Regards,
Todd

[adamsgolfer]

I got your fax.  The launch monitor numbers are from a Zelocity system (also radar based).


Therefore, the carry results from OptimalFlight are to be trusted. 

There may be some scaling adjustment factors taking place which is causing the system to produce longer than expected results.  I'd try to learn more about what the current settings are.  A number of Zelocity fitters have OptimalFlight on hand to complement their fittings.

Not sure what is up with the roll #'s. 

Typically the most similar 2-4 shots will be used in the summary average.   There are some shots that could benefit from exclusion.  One example is in the erHX Tour 56 with one shot having a 20* launch angle and 3713 spin. 

The cold & wet conditions will favor a driver with an all carry strategy.  Drier and warmer conditions will favor a mid launch, just the right amount of spin driver or a low launcher to take advantage of generous roll out on a hard fairway.

Regards,
Todd

I'll go to the place I hit today and see what the settings are for the roll?

Any particular question I should ask?

Is a shaft change something to consider, or is this pretty close with the right ball?

Thanks for your input.

[OptimalFlight]

I got your fax.  The launch monitor numbers are from a Zelocity system (also radar based).


Therefore, the carry results from OptimalFlight are to be trusted. 

There may be some scaling adjustment factors taking place which is causing the system to produce longer than expected results.  I'd try to learn more about what the current settings are.  A number of Zelocity fitters have OptimalFlight on hand to complement their fittings.

Not sure what is up with the roll #'s. 

Typically the most similar 2-4 shots will be used in the summary average.   There are some shots that could benefit from exclusion.  One example is in the erHX Tour 56 with one shot having a 20* launch angle and 3713 spin. 

The cold & wet conditions will favor a driver with an all carry strategy.  Drier and warmer conditions will favor a mid launch, just the right amount of spin driver or a low launcher to take advantage of generous roll out on a hard fairway.

Regards,
Todd

I'll go to the place I hit today and see what the settings are for the roll?

Any particular question I should ask?

Is a shaft change something to consider, or is this pretty close with the right ball?

Thanks for your input.

Dont worry about the roll or smash factors for now.  I'll let a Zelocity fitter chime in here for the equipment settings and how to get that information.

If you like the head, I'd locate a backup head (maybe 2-3* lower in loft) and then shaft it with something else.  This route will give you a true comparison without touching your gamer unless your data and on-course results of the backup head outperforms it.  Most golfers dont have the luxury of having many shafts and heads to pick from.  A performance oriented approach helps you learn more about the process, what's changing, and how it delivers results.

Regards,
Todd

[adamsgolfer]

Thanks,

I'll play the club as is for awhile and wait until a lower lofted head is available at a decent price.

Before your post, I was thinking of the same 9.5* FT-5 Draw LCG head but with a Whiteboard 73 shaft.  That would lower the launch and lower the spin quite abit for the summer FIRMER conditions.

From everything that I've hit, the Ozik 8M2 and the Whiteboard have always gotten the lowest spin of anything I have hit.

I also normally play 8.5* TM heads, so this was my first attempt at a 9.5* FT-5 LCG head.

[Cwebb]

I got your fax.  The launch monitor numbers are from a Zelocity system (also radar based).


Therefore, the carry results from OptimalFlight are to be trusted. 

There may be some scaling adjustment factors taking place which is causing the system to produce longer than expected results.  I'd try to learn more about what the current settings are.  A number of Zelocity fitters have OptimalFlight on hand to complement their fittings.

Not sure what is up with the roll #'s. 

Typically the most similar 2-4 shots will be used in the summary average.   There are some shots that could benefit from exclusion.  One example is in the erHX Tour 56 with one shot having a 20* launch angle and 3713 spin. 

The cold & wet conditions will favor a driver with an all carry strategy.  Drier and warmer conditions will favor a mid launch, just the right amount of spin driver or a low launcher to take advantage of generous roll out on a hard fairway.

Regards,
Todd

I'll go to the place I hit today and see what the settings are for the roll?

Any particular question I should ask?

Is a shaft change something to consider, or is this pretty close with the right ball?

Thanks for your input.

They probably have it set for the soft conditions that you have in Oregon right now.  The numbers you got with the HX.tour are very playable in a wide range of conditions.  If it's firm, you could go down a tad and pick up a few yards on the ground.....possibly.

[adamsgolfer]

The HX Tour 56 is the least spinny ball based upon LA ratio

What is the importance of the LA Ratio?