Club fitter/maker- are they the same or different?

[Ant]

Anyone know what is the different between a club fitter and a club marker? I have visited 2 shop and they advertise to do shaft change, grip replacement etc. I was given thier name card and both mentioend that they are PCS certified. What is PCS certified? 2nd question: one mentioned hsi job titile as "Class A club marker" whereas the other one as Class A club maker"? Are they the same people that you should consult if you want to get advise on shaft change to suit your swing?

[camster8]

A fitter and maker are 2 separate entities.  While both titles could be one in the same, ask them what their credentials are for fitting.  You may well want to ask for a couple of references as well.  If the clubmaker says he's a fitter, ask him what kind of launch monitor system he uses upon fitting?  If he says he doesn't have one, I'd look elsewhere for someone who does.

On another note that has been discussed here in the past, don't limit your search to a branded "PCS" (Professional Clubmakers Society) clubmaker/fitter.  Regardless of affiliation with PCS, GCA, etc., ask questions, ask for references, and go with your gut feeling upon doing your "homework".  I know plenty of fitters/makers that aren't associated with any "Golf Group Affiliations", many of which reside right here.  Of the ones I do know here and have become very close with, I'd stack up their credentials, affiliations or not, against anyone else out there...  Hope this helps...

[Jetlv25]

I couldn't agree more with Frank.  While I am an amateur club maker I would never try to pass myself off as a clubfitter.  While many clubfitters are also club builders, many club builders are not fitters.  As Frank mentioned always ask when looking for a good club fitter.  I highly recommend Tom Wishon's book "In Search of the Perfect Golf Club" as it will explain what to look for in a clubfitter and what questions to ask. 

[thewitt]

Be careful using simply technology to qualify your club fitter as well.

I know plenty of guys who can "fit" you looking at the launch monitor numbers and put you into a horrible club.

Many of the best fitters in the country will fit you watching ball flight without looking at any launch monitor numbers - and do a crack job of it to boot.

Watching the ball "fall out of the sky" with a downrange observer or some of the newer very expensive equipment will also tell you much about the ball's flight characteristics and what you need to do for any given golfer.

The technology behind launch monitors means that they can only measure a couple of variables and then they calculate the rest of them. These calculations are based off of formulas that may or may not be accurate for a given set of conditions, and can lead you down a very wrong path.

Though they can be good for comparing launch angles and spin rates from one setup to another - they will rarely give you the same numbers from one machine to another, and will often lead you astray chasing your tail trying to fit optimum on a golfer who cannot swing the same way one club to another.

Clubfitters are also not always accomplished Clubmkers - so checking references is always valuable.

-t

[rcain1us]

The technology behind launch monitors means that they can only measure a couple of variables and then they calculate the rest of them. These calculations are based off of formulas that may or may not be accurate for a given set of conditions, and can lead you down a very wrong path.

Though they can be good for comparing launch angles and spin rates from one setup to another - they will rarely give you the same numbers from one machine to another, and will often lead you astray chasing your tail trying to fit optimum on a golfer who cannot swing the same way one club to another.

That is exactly how I took the results of two recent Launch Monitor sessions.

I did not get hung up on how far the LM said the balls I was hitting would actally have traveled, what was valuable was hitting the various combinations and seeing the difference between the two in clubspeed, launch angle, back spin and so on.

The actual total distance computed is relative and really meant nothing to me hitting into a net. What's important is that over two sessions and 9-10 different driver/shaft/ball combinations using the same LM with the same settings I know the numbers are consistent and I can believe that the driver I chose hit the ball with more clubspeed, at a better launch angle, with a better backspin number and so on then all the others.

It's the difference between the clubs that matters. The key is to start with a driver you have hit before and go from there.

[thewitt]

The problem is you can know the spin numbers and they can be actually meaningless when it comes to ball flight since the rest of  the data from the launch monitor can be bogus.

I've one literally thousands of fittings with many hundreds of them using both the launch monitor and real ball flight outside and quite frankly the two did not correlate enough of the time to make me trust launch monitor data more than about 50% of the time.

I've been "fit" twice by professionals on launch monitors by the way, and in neither case did the club perform as well as my own fitting of myself outdoors...

-t

[Hungsolo]

There's really nothing to argue with here.

1.  I am a waay amateur club maker.

2.  I don't know squat about fitting. 

[Jetlv25]

There's really nothing to argue with here.

1.  I am a waay amateur club maker.

2.  I don't know squat about fitting. 

I've got one up on you Hung.  I've graduated from the not knowing squat about fitting to the I know enough to be dangerous to myself and my game stage.

[Ant]

Not understanding the different with a Class A clubmarker and a fitter I am now stuck with a spare UST shaft that suck real time which is worst in distance and direction than the OEM shaft on the R5 Taylor Made drvier. I have since replaced back my OEM shaft and getting my usual distance. With the UST shaft I was assured better performace in distance and consistency by THE CLUBMAKER, instead it ended with a banana shot that only Pele would love to have in a soccer game 

I don't think it is the UST shaft that is the fault. It is the $$#@!!! clubmaker and my ignorance for not knowing the different between a club maker and a fitter.... I should have walk away when all he measure was my swing speed before recommending the UST shaft..... Damm... just like golf - I am still learning. GOLF= Go On Learning Forever!! 

[camster8]

Not understanding the different with a Class A clubmarker and a fitter I am now stuck with a spare UST shaft that suck real time which is worst in distance and direction than the OEM shaft on the R5 Taylor Made drvier. I have since replaced back my OEM shaft and getting my usual distance. With the UST shaft I was assured better performace in distance and consistency by THE CLUBMAKER, instead it ended with a banana shot that only Pele would love to have in a soccer game 

I don't think it is the UST shaft that is the fault. It is the $$#@!!! clubmaker and my ignorance for not knowing the different between a club maker and a fitter.... I should have walk away when all he measure was my swing speed before recommending the UST shaft..... Damm... just like golf - I am still learning. GOLF= Go On Learning Forever!! 

"You never fail until you stop trying."  PM me at anytime and let me help you get through this.  Trust me, it is really painless...

[Ant]

Not understanding the different with a Class A clubmarker and a fitter I am now stuck with a spare UST shaft that suck real time which is worst in distance and direction than the OEM shaft on the R5 Taylor Made drvier. I have since replaced back my OEM shaft and getting my usual distance. With the UST shaft I was assured better performace in distance and consistency by THE CLUBMAKER, instead it ended with a banana shot that only Pele would love to have in a soccer game 

I don't think it is the UST shaft that is the fault. It is the $$#@!!! clubmaker and my ignorance for not knowing the different between a club maker and a fitter.... I should have walk away when all he measure was my swing speed before recommending the UST shaft..... Damm... just like golf - I am still learning. GOLF= Go On Learning Forever!! 

"You never fail until you stop trying."  PM me at anytime and let me help you get through this.  Trust me, it is really painless...

I will. Thanks for the offer!