Baseball Hall of Fame 2007 Who is worthy??

[letthebigdogshunt]

The ballet is out and there are some very great players on it for the first time. Who is worthy of first time election. Will McGwire get in or will there be a backlash from his Congressional hearing fiasco? What are your thoughts?? Link below to story, Gus

 http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2677322

[letthebigdogshunt]

My initial thoughts are pretty standard I would guess. Gwynn and Ripken are two HOFers as if there ever was any doubt. Mark McGwire should not be elected the first time at least in my mind. Below is a story on Mark McGwire and what may hurt him on 2007 ballot and beyond. Gus

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2677950

[luckysevens777]

Ripken and Gwynn should be in for sure... but Big Mac might not get in his first try...

-Lucky7

[RickB]

Gwynn and Ripken are locks, Mac is a definite no this time around and probably for several years until the steroids hubub dies a little. Other than that I think Gossage should be a no-brainer, but since he's not in already it only proves that the BBWAA has even less brains that that. Other than those guys nobody really jumps out at me. Maybe Rice and a few others deserve it, but they're being penalized by playing in the pre-steroids, pre-juiced-ball era and their numbers look bad in comparison.

[DaveTheDuffer]

I look at the names and some make me go WTF!  I mean Lee Smith was a good reliever, but hall of fame?  WTF? 

[letthebigdogshunt]

What about Consenco? He was a pretty good player during his prime, but in my mind he is not close to being HOF material at all. I think they feel they must reward some of these guy who were pretty good players by at least putting them on the ballot. Thus the guy can always sat he merited and got acknowledgement from baseball. Gus

[letthebigdogshunt]

Gwynn and Ripken are locks, Mac is a definite no this time around and probably for several years until the steroids hubub dies a little. Other than that I think Gossage should be a no-brainer, but since he's not in already it only proves that the BBWAA has even less brains that that. Other than those guys nobody really jumps out at me. Maybe Rice and a few others deserve it, but they're being penalized by playing in the pre-steroids, pre-juiced-ball era and their numbers look bad in comparison.

Right now it seems relievers are not considered worthy of the HOF. This will change over time I believe, but right now there are a few who belong but probably will not get there for a while if ever.

 Your take on presteroid era is accurate and one of the reasons I am so adamantly against admitting any of those who used a substance to aid their ability to put up stats they could not have achieved normally. Baseball is so stats oriented that a ten year period like the one we just went through skews the statistacal tables for those before and those now and in the future. Bah Humbug they should all be excluded from the HOF.  Gus

[RickB]

Gwynn and Ripken are locks, Mac is a definite no this time around and probably for several years until the steroids hubub dies a little. Other than that I think Gossage should be a no-brainer, but since he's not in already it only proves that the BBWAA has even less brains that that. Other than those guys nobody really jumps out at me. Maybe Rice and a few others deserve it, but they're being penalized by playing in the pre-steroids, pre-juiced-ball era and their numbers look bad in comparison.

Right now it seems relievers are not considered worthy of the HOF. This will change over time I believe, but right now there are a few who belong but probably will not get there for a while if ever.

 Your take on presteroid era is accurate and one of the reasons I am so adamantly against admitting any of those who used a substance to aid their ability to put up stats they could not have achieved normally. Baseball is so stats oriented that a ten year period like the one we just went through skews the statistacal tables for those before and those now and in the future. Bah Humbug they should all be excluded from the HOF.  Gus

The guys who are really suffering are the 80's sluggers. Back then 30HR and 100 RBI's was a monster year. If you did 25/90 consistently you were a perennial all-star and one of the best players in the game. Now what juiced-up second basemen do 35/110 those numbers look pathetic. Guys like Jim Rice and Dale Murphy were perhaps the 2 most feared sluggers in the game during the 80's. Those guys were to that time what Bonds, McGwire and Sosa were to the juice era. Dale Murphy led ALL OF BASEBALL in home runs and and RBIs from 1981-1990, was one of only 6 men (at the time) to put up a 30-30 season, won a ton of gold gloves and was MVP twice, yet I don't think he's ever gotten 25% of the vote let alone the 75% necessary to get in. Goose Gossage when the absolutely most dominant fireman in the game back when that meant something. He'd come in with the bases loaded and nobody out in the 7th inning of a 2-1 game, blow three guys away to get out of the jam and then work the 8th and 9th. There's not a single reliever in baseball that can do that today. Now it's all guys who come in for the 9th of 5-2 games where you can give up 5 hits, 2 runs and still get the save. It's ridiculous, they build up meaningless save stats while the guys who could REALLY save games are ignored.

The travesty is that the HOF voters are all members of the BBWAA, professionals who supposedly follow and understand baseball. They're guys who should have enough of a sense of history to know that players can only be compared to players of their own era and that anyone who was dominant in their time deserves to get in. Yet none of them can look beyond stat sheets and none seem to grasp the fact that 30/100 in 1982 was every bit as good or even better than 50/125 in 2002.

[Dr.Green]

~Jim Rice~

[letthebigdogshunt]

Rick here is a mojo for a great post. The game has changed the last 20-30 years that is for sure. This year the ball is juiced as well in my opinion. Makes it hard to be able to measure one player against another of a different era. Of course that has always been somewhat of a problem but now it has become almost impossible.

 This is why steroids and other like drugs have made a mockery of the game and what many people don't understand. Those who used them during this era have an unfair advantage against their peers and as you have said, against those who came before them. I had hoped the people who vote for admittance into the HOF would be wise enough to understand this and not let it affect their opinion and vote each year. Gus

 

[chtw]

I vote for Dale Murphy and Goose Gossage.  The fact that Goose isn't in the HoF is one of the worst travesties in sports voting... worse than this years postseason awards.  HOLY CRAP the voting was messed up this year.

[Shanx]

Gwynn and Ripken are locks, Mac is a definite no this time around and probably for several years until the steroids hubub dies a little. Other than that I think Gossage should be a no-brainer, but since he's not in already it only proves that the BBWAA has even less brains that that. Other than those guys nobody really jumps out at me. Maybe Rice and a few others deserve it, but they're being penalized by playing in the pre-steroids, pre-juiced-ball era and their numbers look bad in comparison.

Right now it seems relievers are not considered worthy of the HOF. This will change over time I believe, but right now there are a few who belong but probably will not get there for a while if ever.

 Your take on presteroid era is accurate and one of the reasons I am so adamantly against admitting any of those who used a substance to aid their ability to put up stats they could not have achieved normally. Baseball is so stats oriented that a ten year period like the one we just went through skews the statistacal tables for those before and those now and in the future. Bah Humbug they should all be excluded from the HOF.  Gus

The guys who are really suffering are the 80's sluggers. Back then 30HR and 100 RBI's was a monster year. If you did 25/90 consistently you were a perennial all-star and one of the best players in the game. Now what juiced-up second basemen do 35/110 those numbers look pathetic. Guys like Jim Rice and Dale Murphy were perhaps the 2 most feared sluggers in the game during the 80's. Those guys were to that time what Bonds, McGwire and Sosa were to the juice era. Dale Murphy led ALL OF BASEBALL in home runs and and RBIs from 1981-1990, was one of only 6 men (at the time) to put up a 30-30 season, won a ton of gold gloves and was MVP twice, yet I don't think he's ever gotten 25% of the vote let alone the 75% necessary to get in. Goose Gossage when the absolutely most dominant fireman in the game back when that meant something. He'd come in with the bases loaded and nobody out in the 7th inning of a 2-1 game, blow three guys away to get out of the jam and then work the 8th and 9th. There's not a single reliever in baseball that can do that today. Now it's all guys who come in for the 9th of 5-2 games where you can give up 5 hits, 2 runs and still get the save. It's ridiculous, they build up meaningless save stats while the guys who could REALLY save games are ignored.

The travesty is that the HOF voters are all members of the BBWAA, professionals who supposedly follow and understand baseball. They're guys who should have enough of a sense of history to know that players can only be compared to players of their own era and that anyone who was dominant in their time deserves to get in. Yet none of them can look beyond stat sheets and none seem to grasp the fact that 30/100 in 1982 was every bit as good or even better than 50/125 in 2002.

Excellent point, moojoo for you!